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308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

 
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:18 PM
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308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

I just wanted to update anyone who I might have encouraged to get this brass, that I believe from my work yesterday that this brass was not properly heat treated and is brittle. That is why I believe it has the high incidence of neck splits and laps.

As I have continued working with the 2 groups of brass that was in my batch, about 60% LR brass and 40% mixed 10, 11 and 12 year crimped primer non LR brass, I have found a significant number of shells with the neck defect.

Right now, I don't think it makes sense for me to reload these as is, without at the very least doing a neck anneal, which I am not setup for. In addition, I am reluctant to work this brass in any die prior to annealing since I believe the fallout could become a lot higher.

I paid $159/500 or $31.80/100 which is close to the price of commercial brass (if it was actually available). Right now, I doubt this brass would be suitable for reloading after a single firing and a significant number may split on firing.

For the moment, after cleaning and depriming all this stuff and removing the tar from the neck with naptha and an earbud (which worked perfectly, BTW and makes seeing some of the neck issues clearer too) I am pretty disappointed.

I did the usual perusal of the on line reloading supply houses and snagged 300 Lapua Palma brass cases on Midway, since it is the first new quality 308 Brass I have seen in 3 months. My entire objective was to develop some decent 308 long distance loads using 185 and 215 gr berger bullets and I am not going to risk this process with sub standard brass.

If I can anneal the necks. I may do a series of multiple cartridge reloads to see how long it goes before it splits to decide what I will ultimately use it for. Worst case scenario, it becomes "leave in the field" brass for my FAL.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:21 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

I'm afraid to ask where you purchased it, I think I already know in as much as I remember the ad for pulled 308 brass with residue in the necks.

I considered it but passed (glad I did). I was hesitant, you don't normally see unfired LC 12 or 13 with pulled projectiles so I surmised something was amiss.

It'd been my experience that this particular vendor (if, indeed it's who I think it is), will stand behind the product.

I do have 500 OFLC 12's coming from the same supplier (I think)...... Should be here on tuesday.

Never had any issue before with their brass and I buy a lot of supplies from them

Rather than play cat-in-mouse, is it Wideners?
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:28 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

Get the old Vicegrips out and do the springback test.

Take a known good cartridge and apply the vicegrips to the point where the neck deforms upon closing and release the vicegrips. Note the amount of return to concentricity and then, without adjusting the vicegrips, squeeze a suspect cartridge and note again, the return to concentricity. If the cartridge is too soft (over annealed) it will stay squished. if it's brittle (inadequately annealed), it will 'spring back to concentricity more so than the known cartridge and/or crack.

Thats the cheapest and easiest way to ascertain elsaticity in the neck.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:33 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

If that is true Lake City Brass that has been pulled down! PLEASE notify Lake City Army Depot! or send me the info on where you got it. I'm an Ammo inspecter for DoD and LC/ATK has been known to produce BAD ammo in which the DoD rejects and ATK is suppose to demil. You can contact me through this web site.
Rhino55
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:36 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

You need to be very careful when annealing bottle necks. I know there is a pile of video's about annealing necks with everything fron a cordless drill and a socket and a pan of water to putting them in a pan of water and heating the necks and knocking them over.

I have no faith in any of the homebrew methods for couple reasons. One, it takes an exact amount of heating time for consistency and the heat can't exceed (I believe 850 degrees) or the cartridge is junk.

You need a temperature sensing paint, a device to sequence the case in the flame and a method of transport that rotates the case as it heats.....

I suggest you make your next purchase a Bench Source annealer. I have one on Jeff's recommendation and I anneal everything from 338's to straight wall 45LCS.

Not cheap (about 500 bucks) but better than destroying a rifle or getting hurt.

Graf's sells them. Bench Source has a website too.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:43 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino55 View Post
If that is true Lake City Brass that has been pulled down! PLEASE notify Lake City Army Depot! or send me the info on where you got it. I'm an Ammo inspecter for DoD and LC/ATK has been known to produce BAD ammo in which the DoD rejects and ATK is suppose to demil. You can contact me through this web site.
Rhino55
Lets wait and see. I know Wideners was offering pulled 7.62x51 (308) in LC 12/13 on their website and they may still be there. Again, I'm real hesitant about buying pulled anything that was never ignited. I just read between the lines.

website: www.wideners.com

Go to reloading components, brass, 308

Mine is OF LC 12/13. I'm comfortable with that. It's went bang already.

In retrosoect, I have never had one issue with their OFMB in any caliber. The have always been above board with me.

I'll have a look-see however.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:47 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

I just checked (Wideners website) and it's still there. 159 bucks per 500, with tarred case mouths, 21-13 LC.

Same as before.
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