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300WSM Reloading Brass Question

 
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  #15  
Old 07-26-2013, 12:26 PM
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Re: 300WSM Reloading Brass Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Loads fired at or near max pressure will work harden by themselves.
Firing does not work harden brass, sizing does, and sizing is managed.
There are choices in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
MikeCR has a self imposed limit of 53,000 PSI while the max for the WSM is 65,000.
Seems low to me. Where did you come up with that?
What sticks in my mind is 55K-60KpSI being rational and a limit point, beyond which, I measure sizing step changes(prices to pay).
I never mean't to imply this as a better limit for everyone, but that it can be considered as a reference, for hunting capacity cartridges, regardless of their SAAMI limits.

I currently shoot a 6.5WSSM (not a WSM, but WSM cases-cut shorter). My accuracy load produces ~3050fps with 139Laps at just under 60Kpsi(from QL), and it's accurate enough and powerful enough to kill deer to transonic ranges.
Anyone can surely run higher pressures, I have plenty of margin, but I can think of no gain in it(overall) for hunting capacity cartridges.
Shooters have the option to pick a capacity where they meet there goals with a full case and chosen bullet -without the prices of excess pressure.
Right? What gain is there in higher pressures with large cartridges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
In the LR and big cartridge arena sizing body and neck is a must.
While most cartridges of older design, and/or pushed to max pressures or beyond, will need body sizing, Nothing in this realm 'is a must'.
Everything can be managed as everything has it's prices. Certainly excess sizing can be eliminated through choices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Almost every LR competitor anneals every time normally for uniformity of neck tension.
This is another stretch I'm sure.
You spoke for me earlier, and now you speak for almost every LR competitor.. Why do you set yourself up like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Lead dip annealing is one of the worst and most cumbersome ways to do it.
Have you, or anyone at 6mmbr.com suceeded in lead dip annealing?
I do lead dip anneal,, I actually know how to do it and what it is I'm doing,, therein lies a difference between known and unknown.
Until you convince me that you know anything about it, anything at all, I'll just dismiss your whining on this.
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:04 PM
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Re: 300WSM Reloading Brass Question

Sizing does work harden brass. When fired the brass expands and the chamber expands, the brass shrinks down and is easily extracted. However, over time that expansion/contraction will work harden the brass and it will not shrink down in the chamber enough to release at some pointand you get the inevitable brass stuck/tight and the bolt click. That is IF you are reloading anywhere near max. As you have stated you do not do that and you stay with smaller cases, so I can see your unfamiliarity with this concept, no matter how well documented it is everywhere.

As for your question what is the gain with higher pressures? Easy, more MV and flatter trajectory with bigger bullets! Not a difficult concept to grasp IF you LR hunt and for larger animals.

As for Quick Load, well WARNING: QuickLOAD is a computer simulation of centerfire cartridge performance. YOU MUST NEVER just "plug in the numbers" and use QuickLOAD's output for a load recipe. That is foolish and dangerous. There are many reasons why the data QuickLOAD generates may not be safe in YOUR gun. Before loading live ammunition, you should always check with the powder-makers' most recent load data. In fact, you should check multiple sources if possible, and consult with individuals who actually load for that cartridge. Sierra Bullets offers free load maps which, in general, are fairly conservative. Even when using manufacturers' load data, start 10% low and work up. Differences in brass, primer brand, and seating depth can make huge differences in pressure. Always reload conservatively and always double- and triple-check QuickLOAD's output against reliable load data supplied by the powder-makers.


Seeing as how QL makes NO provisions for primer/brass and powder lot to lot variances , or variations in bullets, standard factory free bores etc. Those are all juggled later to determine what QL thinks is happening based on your inputs, right or wrong. Plus you have to plug in your known MV to alter the friction coefficiants when you say QL shows your pressure as this, that just means it is somewhere within a 15-20% range and it grossly naive to believe the computer simulation is remotely accurate unless it is confirmed with strain guages.

QL puts numerous warnings and disclaimers in its manual for a reason. One of them is the projected computer simulated data is for "factory new cases".

I shot the 1k World Open two weeks ago, and I can say most assuredly that the majority of 1k competitors and 100% of the top ones there anneal and no one uses lead dip. We have been annealing for years.

As you say, sizing can be controlled and eliminated through choices. However, even you have repeatedly stated you use a body die custom honed by JLC (but for some unfathomable reason do not consider that sizing). Your previous posts clearly stated you limited yourself to 53,000 PSI and that is no where near what most LR hunters load to. They are using cases that are in the 60-65K PSI range and I would bet most are right at that top edge if not over a little a lot of the times. So the LR hunters normally do not buy into your choices.

As for the lead dip annealing, that may explain some things. See breathing toxic lead fumes while hanging out over a lead pot is a big no no. Those lead fumes do funny things to your brain.

Also, if you have ever seen a lead pot explode due to one drop of water or something unseen on a piece of lead and splatter molten lead all over 10 yard area you would not be so keen on it especially when there are faster and safer ways to do it. By the way, I have been a safety manager for 20 years and run lead safety programs so for sure know that one. Just because you can do something and get away with it for awhile does not mean it is safe or should be recommended, particularily to novice reloaders. The Darwin Awards have numerous winners like that every year.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2013, 06:34 AM
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Re: 300WSM Reloading Brass Question

the short mags just run a bit more pressure then most rounds. Thats how they get it to run with the 300 win mag. Guys have the same problem with weatherby rounds and want to blame the brass but all you have to do is back off about a 100 fps from max loads and youll get great brass life with either.
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  #18  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:30 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Arlington, Vermont
Posts: 5
Re: 300WSM Reloading Brass Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightflight View Post
I typically FL/ neck size every other firing. Assuming you Body die to get the benefits of FL sizing with working the brass less but still bump the shoulder back?

My typical hunting load in my 270wsm is a 130gr Barnes TTSX runing 3255 avg. This load doesn't run through brass quickly but when I was developing for 150gr bergers and got of max load brass wasn't lasting long at all. But like you said that was due to pressure. But I'm done with those as my throat is too short to get a good load.

AidanTE sorry if I hijacked...its still on topic right?
No problem still on topic. I'm just looking to get as much information and then I'm going to start working from there.
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:09 AM
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Re: 300WSM Reloading Brass Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydsmale View Post
the short mags just run a bit more pressure then most rounds. Thats how they get it to run with the 300 win mag. Guys have the same problem with weatherby rounds and want to blame the brass but all you have to do is back off about a 100 fps from max loads and youll get great brass life with either.
You might want to look at Hodgdon data for the 300mag as they give pressure in CUP and PSI. Their is lot of of load 60kPSI to 63kPSI.
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: 300WSM Reloading Brass Question

Now i would like to point out that i'm not pushing max loads by any means. I know he hunts mostly in fall/winter with this rifle, but i make sure the loads are lower to account for when his redneck comes out and he wants to shoot a few off during the hot summer days so that i don't have to worry about the higher temperature of the ammo. I do this since i don't want to push my limits for winter and then add summer temperatures and risk over pressure and possibly risk his rifles and personal safety. I actually load develop during the summer and keep everything safe.
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