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300 RUM load development questions

 
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:37 PM
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Re: 300 RUM load development questions

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Originally Posted by cerwin View Post
I appreciate the advice Rifleman. Sounds all reasonable to me. It makes sense.
Would you care to share some creative ways to unstick a case?
First, even when using Imperial wax, your brass may still be a little stuborn, esecially the first few cases, If you feel any resistance in the sizing stroke, stop and back out and rub a little more wax on but dont use too much. That's just the way the RUM cases are. After you've done a few and the wall of the die gets lubed, it should go easier. You'll learn to feel how it's going and how much wax to use.

It's been a while, so I'll have to draw back on memory. You'll need a 5/16ths x about 1 1/2" lag screw and a washer wouldn't hurt and 1/2" wrench. A slightly smaller drill bit and hand drill. A crow bar and 2 chairs (one for each foot for good ballance ) Also some PB blaster which I didn't use.

OK, remove the spindle from the die. Spray the PB blaster into the top of the die and around the bottom of the die and stuck case. Let is soak, overnight would be best. After soaking, insert the die upside down into the press. I would hesitate doing this on a turret press. Screw the die up until the bottom of the die is just below the top of the press. Drill down into the primer pocket and make a hole slightly smaller than 5/16ths. Dont make the hole too big or too small, you may need to experiment. take the 5/16ths lag screw with washer and screw down into the hole in the base of the case. leave the washer and head of the lag about 1/2" above the case base. Get a rag and fold it a couple of times and lay it on the frame of the press where your crowbar will touch the press. You probably get the rest. It took a whole lot of effort on my part. Make sure your press is very secure. And if your married, you might want to wait until your wife is out shopping or something
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:42 PM
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Re: 300 RUM load development questions

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
To remove your stuck case from a die, first slide the shell holder off its head then remove the die with the case in it. If there's no primer in it, then use a standard stuck case remover to get it out. If the primer's in it, then I'll need to know what cartridge case it is before giving more help.
If there is a primer in the pocket you can easily pop it out with a lyman flashole uniforming tool, or drill it out. If you do have a stuck case remover on the way, that's probably the best way to do it.
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  #31  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:01 PM
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Re: 300 RUM load development questions

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As soon as I get my stuck case out of my bushing die. I'll experiment without and with expander. Checking concentricity. I think I believe you on the ex panders pulling necks off center.
Anyway thanks. I'll find what works best in the end. I'm getting some good suggestions here.
That's a very good idea. Nothing like seeing it yourself. It makes a bigger impression. FWIW, i just recently FL sized some fired 22-250 brass, fired 25-06 brass and some new 300 RUM brass. I took a handful of each and put them on my Sinclair gauge and the necks ran about 1 - 2 thou of runout. This was with standard New Dimension FL dies for the 22-250 and 25-06 and a standard Redding FL die for the RUM brass. These all size the neck about 5-6 thou smaller than the expander diameter. If you lube the inside of the neck and go slow, you can do a good job of keeping them straight. I didn't measure the runout of these cases prior to sizing, but usually they are just under 1 thou give or take.

One thing about using the expander with the bushing is you don't have to turn the necks. If you use a bushing only, it's best to turn the necks. If you're using a factory barrel, there is really no point in neck turning. Your neck space is already going to be generous and thinner necks will expand all the more.

Something else you might experiment on is sorting your loaded cartridges by run out and shooting them to see how much if any difference there is.
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  #32  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:10 AM
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Re: 300 RUM load development questions

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
One thing about using the expander with the bushing is you don't have to turn the necks. If you use a bushing only, it's best to turn the necks. If you're using a factory barrel, there is really no point in neck turning. Your neck space is already going to be generous and thinner necks will expand all the more.
I've had no problems full length sizing fired cases without any neck turning not using expander balls. In fact, I've not seen any significant difference between turned and unturned case necks using gelded dies (those without balls but with necks a bit smaller than a loaded round). Both shoot well under 1 MOA through 1000 yards. All with SAAMI spec chambers with lots of clearance around the loaded round's neck. How well a bottleneck case that headspaces on its shoulder centers in the chamber neck has nothing to do with their diameter differences anyway; a .243 Win. round centers perfectly in a .308 Win. chamber neck when fired.

There is one advantage of turning case necks. If their wall thickness is 2 thousandths or more, then turn them so at least half the neck cleans up. Zero tolerance isn't needed for best accuracy but a lot of folks think it is.
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2013, 01:57 PM
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Re: 300 RUM load development questions

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
I've had no problems full length sizing fired cases without any neck turning not using expander balls. In fact, I've not seen any significant difference between turned and unturned case necks using gelded dies (those without balls but with necks a bit smaller than a loaded round). Both shoot well under 1 MOA through 1000 yards. All with SAAMI spec chambers with lots of clearance around the loaded round's neck. How well a bottleneck case that headspaces on its shoulder centers in the chamber neck has nothing to do with their diameter differences anyway; a .243 Win. round centers perfectly in a .308 Win. chamber neck when fired.

There is one advantage of turning case necks. If their wall thickness is 2 thousandths or more, then turn them so at least half the neck cleans up. Zero tolerance isn't needed for best accuracy but a lot of folks think it is.
Never heard the "Gelding" descript before. I'll have to remember it. This is interesting since I was just visiting my smith about a week and half ago to determine the reamer specs for my New 300 RUM (currently shooting a factory Sendero) We are goibng with the PTG 300 RUM Match which has a little tighter neck. We also discussed neck sizing vs FL, neck turning, etc. Going into this project a while back, I was going to turn the necks but after talking with him and others, I decided not to. He is an avid shooter and long ranger as well. He is a FL sizer and is happy and successful with it. He also said, that when a round is chambered, it will sag under it's own weight and not not be perfectly centered. If it does, I suppose it might throw the neck off center a little when the round is discharged? I don't know. My necks seem to come out of the chamber fairly concentric.

Anyway, I would say that if there is a lot of variation in neck wall thickness, it would probably be a good idea to turn them, but I haven't seen a lot of variation. I also like the idea of bringing the expander back up through it to get any variations pushed to the outside. I don't think that would throw the necks off much, if at all, if your only pushing it out 1-2 thou and the inside of the neck is lubed. That could be easily measured and i will be doing just that when this project is complete.
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:56 PM
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Re: 300 RUM load development questions

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Going into this project a while back, I was going to turn the necks but after talking with him and others, I decided not to. He is an avid shooter and long ranger as well. He is a FL sizer and is happy and successful with it. He also said, that when a round is chambered, it will sag under it's own weight and not not be perfectly centered. If it does, I suppose it might throw the neck off center a little when the round is discharged? I don't know. My necks seem to come out of the chamber fairly concentric.
Your avid shooter doesn't understand how a rimless bottleneck case fits the chamber when it's in there with the bolt closed and especially when its fired. But then, neither to most other shooters understand this.

When chambered, if the bolt's got an in line ejector, that pushes the round full forward into the chamber where its shoulder centers in the chamber shoulder. Its back end gets pushed where the extractor presses it against the chamber wall, usually. When the firing pin smacks the primer, that further drives the case shoulder hard into and well centered in the chamber shoulder before the firing pin dents the primer enough to crush the pellet against the anvil and finally fires the round. And there's typically a bit of clearance all around the case before and when fired except at its back end that's pressed against the chamber wall. Rounds do not lay in the bottom of the chamber except when they're in it and the bolt's open and not touching the case head whatsoever.

Ask your avid shooter where the shoulder of a NO GO headspace gauge goes when the bolt tries to close on it in a GO headspaced chamber, but it won't. Then ask him what's the difference betwen this and what happens to a live round in that same chamber when it's smacked hard by the firing pin. You can probably figure this out all by yourself.
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:27 PM
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Re: 300 RUM load development questions

Well he is a very experienced shooter and very experienced and talented smith. A number of LRH members I know are very happy with his work. Whether his theory about sagging cartridges is accurate, I don't know and don't really care. What I do care about is results. Predictable, repeatable and reliable results.

To me as a long range shooter, I would like to see these results in Sub MOA shooting to 1K and maybe farther.
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