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30 cal bullet malfunction???

 
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  #1  
Old 03-13-2006, 10:37 AM
Bug Bug is offline
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Location: Deep East Texas
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30 cal bullet malfunction???

Guys,
Recently, Midway had a sale on .308 150gr bullets. I forget which ones, but they were out when I called. They were substituting Winchester Combined Technology Partition Gold (moly coated). The price was right ($5.00/50), so I loaded up (2000+) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. I split them up with a buddy, so he has 1000, and I have a few more than that. Not wanting to fool with moly, I ran mine in my vibrator, polishing them up, and removing the moly. He left his as is.
Thing is, we have yet to get a respectable, repeatable group from these bullets, moly or no. I have tried them in two .308s and a SAUM, he's tried a Win Mag, and an '06. I can't quote his data, but I tried several ladder-type loads with H 4064, Varget, and H 335. Velocities ran from the high 2500s to the low 2900 fps range. Typical 100yd groups with these bullets ran in the 2-3" range, up to maybe 4". I had one 3/4" group with 45gr Varget, from one of the .308s. I didn't re-run that load though, so it might have just been a fluke. The rifles we have used are capable of honest 3/4-1" groups day in and day out, given favored loads. And yes, some are with 150gr bullets. Whether they are molied or not, seems to make no difference.
Now this is two people, using entirely different loading gear and practices. He does it his way, and I do mine. But neither of us seem to have been able to get decent groups with these bullets.
Is there something you guys can think of that might help? I'm going to give Nosler a call to see if they're any help. BTW, I did hear that these bullets have been discontinued. Reckon this might be why?
As an aside, I didn't sort them in any way. Didn't check weights, lengths, or anything of the sort. We just used them like we would any other bullet, But we certainly expected better results. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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Old 03-13-2006, 05:02 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shiro, TX
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Re: 30 cal bullet malfunction???

Since you have no replies I'll give it a try. For years there have been reports of people having difficulty in getting good groups with the partition style bullets due to there construction. When any bullet has some kind of dual core system or insert it is likely to have centering problems. This I believe is across the board with all the manufacturers. It is a good bullet from a structural stand point but as far as accuracy they simply cannot be as consistent as a single lead core copper jacket bullet. These have been a great hunting bullet for many years but have never been considered great for precision shooting.
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Old 03-13-2006, 05:26 PM
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Re: 30 cal bullet malfunction???

Bug,your handle caught my attention, i'm a pest control tech [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] anyways, i tend to agree with the last post. plus you're probably shooting these in a 10 twist which is comfortably fast but usually works pretty well.problem is the more out of balance the bullet is, the greater degree of inaccuracy you get by overspinning them. the best test would be to get someone to shoot them in a tackdriver of a gun that likes 150 weight bullets and see if they get similar results.
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2006, 05:44 PM
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Re: 30 cal bullet malfunction???

I'll bet you didn't work up to Nosler's max of Varget in the .308, which is 48 grains. Work up carefully, but it should be no problem with most rifles. That's with Winchester brass, by the way. If you're using Lapua, try 47.6 grains, and Federal or Remington should work well at 47.2 grains or so.

Try this with CCI primers if you can find them, or Fed 210's if you can't.

Let us know how this does. If the .308's don't like this load, I'd have to guess there is something wrong with the rifles or the bullets themselves...

By the way, 150's are the hardest bullet to get to shoot in a .308 win. I have no theory as to why that is, but if you'll poll everyone who has done a lot of shooting with the .308, there will probably be a consensus that the 150's are tricky devils.

But the 48 grain Varget load should work.

Dan
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:32 PM
Bug Bug is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Re: 30 cal bullet malfunction???

Y'all ain't gonna believe this, but here goes...
I called Nosler. One of their "techs" said to use a faster powder [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]! He said a faster powder will help the bullet to "slug up" (tech term) and fit the barrel. While we were on the phone I grabbed some of the bullets and my mic. They measure right at .307"!!! Who ever heard of such! Not me, anyway. Even after I measured five of them, and they were within a couple of tenths, he still suggested the faster powder cure. Am I that inexperienced, and this sort of thing is a common ocurrance? It just don't seem right, to me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
I guess I'll try it,though. What the heck else am I gonna do?

Green 788: No, I didn't try a 48 grain charge of Varget. I only went up to 47 grains. Those ran just over 2900fps, and they were beginning to get hot. Not sticky, or anything, just a warm load. I was using WW cases and CCI primers, though.

And thanks guys, for the replies. They help. Just like I've never heard that "<font color="blue"> 150's are the hardest bullet to get to shoot in a .308 win. </font>" Sigh, that's more I didn't need to hear! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] As far as a tack driver, I don't know about that. One of the 308s I used put three factory loads (Hornady Custom), with the 150gr SST, in a tad less than 3/4" outside-to-outside, as a control. Hell, I don't know if I can shoot any better than that, leastwise with that rifle and its Leupie 2-7. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] To quote someone a bit more eloquent than I am at this time:
<font color="red"> THIS JUST SUCKS!!! </font>
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2006, 09:32 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 564
Re: 30 cal bullet malfunction???

I've never heard the term "slug up." [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] The bullet obturates, which means that it swells (to a limited degree) to fill the bore that it is in--but you don't need a fast powder to do that--I wouldn't think.

Move on up to 48 grains of Varget. You've already proven that 47 is safe, so it shouldn't take but two "stepping stone" shots at 47.4, and 47.7, say, for pressure observations... then have five loaded at 48 grains and see how things look. I learned long ago that most of these tech guys (not only at the reloading manufacturers, but in other industries as well) don't necessarily know a helluva lot. Probably have a college degree in something, and they "BS'd" their way into a job...

Dan
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