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280AI question

 
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  #8  
Old 03-04-2011, 04:24 PM
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Re: 280AI question

Do-nuts occur at the junction of the neck/shoulder and are caused by brass flowing along the shoulder and causing a ridge that won't let the bullet pass by in a fired unsized case




the only way to get rid of them is with an inside neck reamer. But they only occur in a tight necked custom reamed chamber.

The way you tell is to take a bullet and try to insert into a fired unsized case and if it hits an obstruction at the neck/shoulder then you have a problem. Essentially they act like a rear crimp.

I wouldn't say you can do load development for the first firing of a 280 rem case. The internal capacity is different enough to cause differences in the subsequent loads. However you could just use them for hunting or trigger time.

My 280AI is my pivot gun in that I take it hunting whether Elk, Antelope or Whitetail along with another gun more appropriate to the game. For example going Elk hunting I will take the 280AI and a 338RUM or for Whitetail the 280AI and my 6.5 rem mag will go. IOW I feel confident it will get the job done from small game to Elk with the 160 gr Accubond at 3000 fps.

Personally I don't like a short action because of possible feeding problems and less magazine capacity. My 280AI will hold 6 down in the mag and feeds slick. I have seen problems with the Wissum's in those short actions and then have seen others that will feed just fine. Even if you don't have feeding problems you will probably have the problem of a longer bullet having to be seated so deep it intrudes on powder capacity. I have dies for and have reloaded for 270 WSM and 300 WSM's and personally will probably never own one.

Besides, there is still a lot of class to walk into deer camp with a 280 Ackley, IMO

YMMV
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2011, 05:25 PM
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Re: 280AI question

Thanks for clearing that up for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by woods View Post
Besides, there is still a lot of class to walk into deer camp with a 280 Ackley, IMO
Im not ashamed to admit thats pretty much the only reason I strayed from the typical choices for this rifle build. The cool factor aside, I had begun to look at other options to the WSM because for building a WSM in a savage you need a large shank receiver which are almost impossible to come by, that and the WSM is CRF making an action for one of those nearly impossible to find without buying the whole gun.

Thanks for all the help, this project will be awhile in coming but slowly and surely
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2011, 08:58 PM
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Re: 280AI question

I too am interested in a 280 AI. I guess there are two options. The 280 AI version or the Nosler SAMMI version. Here is a posting from Gunsmith Talk:

280 Ackley Improved Alert

A few years back Nosler decided to bring the 280 Ackley Improved into their list of custom brass and rifles. In order to do this they wanted to take the 280 AI to SAAMI and have it standardized.
Part of the process of standardizing the cartridge was for Nosler to see if other manufacturers had worked with it. They found that Remington had been chambering the 280 in their custom shop. Now here is where the alert comes in. Remington’s Custom Shop chose to shorten the headspace on the venerable design by .014″. When Nosler sent drawings to SAAMI they picked up that number as well.
So by a vote of the members of SAAMI the commercial established specifications for the 280 Ackley were changed from the original design. The reason reported for this change is that Remington believed it was necessary in order for factory 280 Remington ammunition to be fireformed safely in an Ackley chamber. Apparently they did not know that Ackley was the single most successful wildcatter of the 20th century. While he was not the first guy to create and “improved” design, he was the first to standardize the idea and create a safe method of fireforming factory ammo in improved chambers.
Ackley’s method was simple, he simply used a headspace gauge .004″ shorter than the factory case. This shorter headspace assured that the cartridge would be held tight between the bolt face and the junction of the neck and shoulder of the chamber during fire forming. Ackley’s method worked fine for more than 50 years before these alterations to his design were made.
Bottom line for anyone who now works with the 280 Ackley Improved you must decide which version of the chamber you will use; the SAAMI or the Ackley; you cannot safely use the Nosler brass in a traditional Ackley chamber, although it would still be safe to fire form factory ammo in a SAAMI/Nosler chamber.


My question then, people seem to be using Nosler brass in their older 280AI guns and not mentioning any problems. Yet, the article above says it "cannot be safely done". I am confused!!!!!!!
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2011, 09:21 PM
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Re: 280AI question

Now that is interesting and may be instrumental in helping to connect the dots for me. For instance I have flattened primers if I use Nosler 280AI brass in addition to the do-nuts.

That sucks, why would they do that! That definitely turns the page for me and I will use 280 rem brass in my 280AI from now on.

My 280AI was chambered by Hart about 3 years ago and I'll bet I have an Ackley chamber.

One question, if they shortened the headspace by .014" then wouldn't that make it harder to chamber a 280 rem loaded brass of 280 rem factory load?

Would also explain why I have .017" headspace on my 280AI; measured with Stoney Point Headspace Gauge on Nosler 280AI brass - new cases 2.135", fully fire formed 2.152"
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Last edited by woods; 03-17-2011 at 09:25 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:04 PM
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Re: 280AI question

"That sucks, why would they do that"

I am sorry to hear about your issues but glad to hear from someone that is actually having issues with the Nosler brass. Let's see if others chime in.
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:53 PM
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Re: 280AI question

I am currently in the load development stage of a 280ai I had built for me this past fall. I am using .280 remington brass that I fireformed during my barrel break in process (2 birds/1 stone so to speak). I am only neck sizing and hope to increase my brass life in doing so. So far, 59 gr of R19 with a Barnes TTSX .140 gr seems to be the 'go to' load. I do not have a chrono but believe I am over 3000fps if not over 3100 fps........love the cartridge!!!!
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2011, 05:02 PM
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Re: 280AI question

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDbound View Post
"That sucks, why would they do that"

I am sorry to hear about your issues but glad to hear from someone that is actually having issues with the Nosler brass. Let's see if others chime in.
Hey ID, I started stirring things up with threads on 24HCF and AccurateReloading, we'll see if this is well known

280AI info, correct? - 24hourcampfire
280AI info, correct? - Topic

Do you have a link to Gunsmith Talk where you got this?

Again thanks for the info and this needs to be spread around.
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