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.280 AI controversy explained ...

 
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  #22  
Old 08-05-2013, 09:46 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

One thing about it. My fault, your fault, my gunsmiths fault, nobody's fault. My rifle is not a SAMMI chamber. it is .014 longer, just like a lot of 280 Ack. rifles out there. I except that fact. I will fireform all my cases out of 280 or 270 brass just like they have been doing for 50 years. If others rifles can use the Nosler 280 Ack.IMP. brass that is fine with me. My case holds a little more powder, Na Na Na. LOL
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  #23  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:17 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by woods View Post
FEENIX I'm happy for you that you got the direction you seem to need.

But what exactly did he say? He clearly said he had not paid any attention to the video yet and blamed Redding and SAAMI for a big screwup. Then he talked generically about doing a good job. That is good advice.

So an untested blanket statement that absolutely positively without a doubt there is no controversy, unless someone screwed up.

What did we learn. An un-named authority (according to you) doesn't examine the evidence, rants about work ethic and settles the matter offhand without explanation (much like the video!)

BULLCHIPS
So are you saying you're the authority on this subject?
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  #24  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:22 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnwhip View Post
One thing about it. My fault, your fault, my gunsmiths fault, nobody's fault. My rifle is not a SAMMI chamber. it is .014 longer, just like a lot of 280 Ack. rifles out there. I except that fact. I will fireform all my cases out of 280 or 270 brass just like they have been doing for 50 years. If others rifles can use the Nosler 280 Ack.IMP. brass that is fine with me. My case holds a little more powder, Na Na Na. LOL
You sir is a better man for accepting the fact and more importantly recognizing the fault.



I originally considered .280 AI but went for .270 AI instead and couldn't be happier.
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  #25  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:43 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

One reamer, two gauges and two chambers that end in the same head space, not hard math
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  #26  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:53 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
So are you saying you're the authority on this subject?
Typical straw man argument

"type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position"

A video was posted that stated the "controversy was solved" and I replied simply but graphically. When pushed I linked 3 different sources of information outlining the different headspace for old and new (which the video did not address)

2 other posters explained their similar experience to mine outlining the headspace difference

Then an expert opinion was posted that said basically nothing

So if you can point me at data or facts that prove that the .014" difference does not exist, then please do. I don't know if you have any personal experience with this since you have not posted it and I am not trying to make it personal.

Perhaps the problem is that some are labeling it a "controversy". In my mind it is controversial in that Nosler and Remington have decided that they were the authority on 280AI without concern for many many years of history on chambering for the caliber. Also controversial would be the fact that Nosler sold their 280AI brass without an advisory or warning on the box that some chambers might have excess headspace.

So is that solved?
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  #27  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:04 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
I originally considered .280 AI but went for .270 AI instead and couldn't be happier.
Perhaps when Remington and Nosler come along and set a SAAMI standard that has a headspace that is .014" shorter than your chamber and brass starts being manufactured for it at the new SAAMI standard

Then you will know how we feel

PS don't know if 270AI is already SAAMI standardized but you should get my point
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  #28  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:34 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Now I am confused.

I have built many 280 AIs and decided when this question came to light I looked at the SAMME
dimensions and found the same dimension difference.

I am a head space fanatic and like .0000 to .0005 for accuracy and could not feel comfortable with
having a chamber that could (In My Opinion) only shoot one brand of ammo when simply using the
280 Remington Go Gage I could use all of the other brands.

I under stand that if you chamber and head space with the new SAMME 280 AI it should be safe
to shoot other brands of ammo, But the head space is still an issue If you shoot anything but the
Nosler ammo in my mind.

So by using the SAMME 280 AI reamer and the 280 Remington go gauge you eliminate any possibility
of to much head space as long as you don't shoot the Nosler ammo.

So in my mind, the choice is that you can shoot one brand of ammo, or all other brands to fire form.

After that the reloader has control of the head space.

I,M not sure if it is OK to shoot the shorter ammo or not, I,m just not willing to find out.

A .014 thousandths short chamber is not a problem for most bolts to close on with cases that head space
on the shoulder, But in my mind a .014 thousandth long chamber Is a questionable
condition.

Controversy or not, As a smith I have to feel that I have built a safe rifle or I just wont do it.

While fire forming, In my experience I have found that less head space is better because it prevents
the case from moving forward while fire forming thinning the web of the brass (A common cause of
case head separation).

I can appreciate all of the different opinions and like to see and hear them because that's what this
web site is known for.

Everyone has a good argument and I have had my mind changed before but not yet on this subject.

J E CUSTOM
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