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.280 AI controversy explained ...

 
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  #15  
Old 08-04-2013, 08:30 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

I have read a ton of posts on this site and others, gunsmith bulletins, etc. I have not found anything that definitively answers the question in my mind. When it comes to reloading, I do not tolerate any uncertainty. Since I don't know for sure, I will continue to fireform.

I certainly agree with the comments that all pre-SAAMI reamers are not all the same. That said, the practical side is that the PO Ackley design used a "negative" or crush headspace to allow for fireforming sharp shoulders. If there were a significant amount of "rogue" chambers reamed so that new SAAMI brass is 14 thou short, it seems to me there would have been a lot of legacy issues in fireforming from 280rem brass.

I think the situation in general is both "bull chips" and "horse hockey" as it has not been definitively answered by a major company with skin in the game (at least that I have seen). Nosler??????
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  #16  
Old 08-04-2013, 09:02 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

woods
Cockcroft
Tnwhip

3 and counting in just our little sample
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  #17  
Old 08-05-2013, 05:36 AM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Just curious what kind of pressure you guys generated with the load that caused it to flatten the primers.

Almost 3 years ago I loaded for a friend, he had a Ruger M77 MKII in .280 Rem that was accurized and AI'd by Brad Stair of Wasatch Precision Arms (WPA) in UT. The hottest load was 60gr of H4831SC, 140gr NAB, BR2, using Nosler .280 AI virgin brass, and .005" off the lands. No pressure signs, no flatten primers.
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  #18  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:45 AM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
Just curious what kind of pressure you guys generated with the load that caused it to flatten the primers.

Almost 3 years ago I loaded for a friend, he had a Ruger M77 MKII in .280 Rem that was accurized and AI'd by Brad Stair of Wasatch Precision Arms (WPA) in UT. The hottest load was 60gr of H4831SC, 140gr NAB, BR2, using Nosler .280 AI virgin brass, and .005" off the lands. No pressure signs, no flatten primers.
I looked at my records and I started out with 56g of 4831 and a 139 g SST, Nosler brass and a Win. large rifle primer. That is 2 g. under max in my old hornandy book for a regular 280 rem. My primers were so flat it scared me. I went home and checked my load to make sure I didn't screw up. I checked my fired brass against my unfired brass and they were .014 short. I called my gundsmith that chambered it. He could not under stand what was wrong,That is when I got on the internet and found out what Nosler had done. I then necked up my brass to 30 cal and necked back down to 7mm leaving a shoulder to fit tight in the chamber and fireformed all my brass. Everything is find now. My load I am shooting is 63.5g H-1000 with a 162 A-max no problem.
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  #19  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:41 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEENIX View Post
Just curious what kind of pressure you guys generated with the load that caused it to flatten the primers.
Pressure is very seldom the cause of flattened primers. When the case is fired it moves forward in the chamber until it is stopped (distance determined by headspace), the primer backs out and to the bolt face, the case expands backwards to the bolt face. The primer is being squeezed between the bolt face and the pressure from the expanding gas of powder burning coming through the primer hole.

The edges of the primer that are not supported within the primer pocket by the case head will be flattened.

My flattened primers were not because of pressure. It was a known load that was not causing problems with loose primer pockets, shiny spots on case head or hard bolt lift. Velocity was as expected.
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  #20  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:19 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

I posted the same video on another gun site/forum and no one seems to have any problems. However, this response stands out the most from a member that I have the utmost respect for his expert opinion, vast experience, and candor but most especially his willingness to share them to help others ... and I am not alone that look up to him.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by XXXXXXX
[br]FEENIX,

Quote:
...any word of wisdom on the video claim?
One word?

No, but I can conjure up about 3-4,000 in one sitting just to try to clear up the BS that Redding and SAAMI have given us. The problem is that this amount of writing, to do correctly, could take me a couple of hours which I simply don't have these days. Sorry.

In short though, I measure everything before I start a chamber, this includes the reamer, headspace gauge and brass. Why? Too many stupid people in the manufacturing end of this business who don't want to afford Quality Control. Example:

I just sent 4 brand new reamers ($700.00) back to the maker because they were absolutely wrong according to my prints. They pulled the wrong prints from file instead of using the ones I specified in writing. Then to compound the error, they intentionally neglected to measure the reamers and check the prints I asked for.

I've been cutting chambers for Ackley cartridges for a long time. I've never had a failure of any type occur from any of the 200+ Ackley chambers. I follow Ackley's guidelines and I measure everything, twice if necessary. I also test fire every one at least once then measure the case again.


There never was a controversy and there never will be when the rules are followed by people that have been trained properly.

Best.
I x-out his screen name just in case, he didn't care to be quoted outside the forum.
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  #21  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:58 PM
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Re: .280 AI controversy explained ...

FEENIX I'm happy for you that you got the direction you seem to need.

But what exactly did he say? He clearly said he had not paid any attention to the video yet and blamed Redding and SAAMI for a big screwup. Then he talked generically about doing a good job. That is good advice.

So an untested blanket statement that absolutely positively without a doubt there is no controversy, unless someone screwed up.

What did we learn. An un-named authority (according to you) doesn't examine the evidence, rants about work ethic and settles the matter offhand without explanation (much like the video!)

BULLCHIPS
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