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.257 ai

 
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  #1  
Old 10-16-2012, 10:26 PM
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.257 ai

Hey all I currently have a Savage 111 in .257 Roberts sitting in a grey laminate stock. My question is I KINDA want to re-chamber it to .257 AI. What if any are the disadvantages?
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2012, 04:36 AM
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Re: .257 ai

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Originally Posted by Savage13 View Post
Hey all I currently have a Savage 111 in .257 Roberts sitting in a grey laminate stock. My question is I KINDA want to re-chamber it to .257 AI. What if any are the disadvantages?
The biggest disadvantage is the 25-06 will still walk it. The next biggest disadvantage is you will have an odd-ball that won't trade or sell well. The advantages are the brass growth, better performance, etc. that all ai. rounds have.
I have a 25wssm and if I wanted a step up I'd go to the 257roy if I had to stay 25 cal. I don't have to stay 25 cal though and don't see any reason a 140-180 at 3300-3400 fps out of my 7stw or 300 rum won't do the same thing as a 120 at 3300fps out of a 25roy.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:07 AM
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Re: .257 ai

gotta disagree in spades.

* the advantage of the .257AI is that you start off with a well known cartridge that is regarded well in the shooting community. Most all the better die makers sell .257AI dies without having to goto high dollar custom stuff (Forster for one). Load data is readilly available in most all the manuals. With this you start out ahead from the get go.

* Now the Ackley improved case is one of his better designs. Ecellent barrel life. Not overbore. Excellent case life, with excellent accuracey.

* Just looking at one of my Hornaday manuals it shows the 28 degree improved version at about 100 fps slower than the 25-06, and 300fps compaired to the .257mag. Now the AA manual shows the Ackley version at 3000fps with a 120 grain bullet(4350 powder), and the 25-06 at 100fps faster. The .257 mag is 3260fps with the same bullet and a lot more powder. We see right away that after about 54 grains of powder the 25 caliber is about done it. (you got 100fps with three to four more grains of powder). And even then they used 3100 which is no longer out there. This tells me that a 25-06AI is a waste of time other than case life.

* now back to sub paragraph number two for further thought. Overbore cartridges are known for short barrell lives. Also known not to be as accurate as efficient cartridges. What we see in the .257 Ackley is about all the quarter bore is good for. Plus there is no serious case forming, and in a pinch you can still shoot factory ammo thru it! To get new cases you simply shoot factory .257 Roberts ammo thru it. I call that a win-win situation.
gary
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:55 PM
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Re: .257 ai

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Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
gotta disagree in spades.

* the advantage of the .257AI is that you start off with a well known cartridge that is regarded well in the shooting community. Most all the better die makers sell .257AI dies without having to goto high dollar custom stuff (Forster for one). Load data is readilly available in most all the manuals. With this you start out ahead from the get go.

* Now the Ackley improved case is one of his better designs. Ecellent barrel life. Not overbore. Excellent case life, with excellent accuracey.

* Just looking at one of my Hornaday manuals it shows the 28 degree improved version at about 100 fps slower than the 25-06, and 300fps compaired to the .257mag. Now the AA manual shows the Ackley version at 3000fps with a 120 grain bullet(4350 powder), and the 25-06 at 100fps faster. The .257 mag is 3260fps with the same bullet and a lot more powder. We see right away that after about 54 grains of powder the 25 caliber is about done it. (you got 100fps with three to four more grains of powder). And even then they used 3100 which is no longer out there. This tells me that a 25-06AI is a waste of time other than case life.

* now back to sub paragraph number two for further thought. Overbore cartridges are known for short barrell lives. Also known not to be as accurate as efficient cartridges. What we see in the .257 Ackley is about all the quarter bore is good for. Plus there is no serious case forming, and in a pinch you can still shoot factory ammo thru it! To get new cases you simply shoot factory .257 Roberts ammo thru it. I call that a win-win situation.
gary

Isnt the "06" that the 25-06 is derived from also a well known casing...maybe even BETTER known since its been around for over 100 years??

Granted ther 257 AI is one hell of a cartridge...no one can dispute that...

But looking at one of my manuals I cant find ANY 257 load with a 120 slug that tops 2810 fps and can find at least 7 or 8 loads with the same 120 slug that best 3000 fps. And ALL of those loads are using 47; 49 and 50 grains of various powders...??

In both cases you have to fireform to get their AI version so neither has the upper hand in ease of manufacture.
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:57 PM
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Re: .257 ai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage13 View Post
Hey all I currently have a Savage 111 in .257 Roberts sitting in a grey laminate stock. My question is I KINDA want to re-chamber it to .257 AI. What if any are the disadvantages?

Advantage? A little more speed. Disadvantage: Having to fireform casings which is a PITA...
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2012, 11:59 AM
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Re: .257 ai

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Originally Posted by Sully2 View Post
Isnt the "06" that the 25-06 is derived from also a well known casing...maybe even BETTER known since its been around for over 100 years??

Granted ther 257 AI is one hell of a cartridge...no one can dispute that...

But looking at one of my manuals I cant find ANY 257 load with a 120 slug that tops 2810 fps and can find at least 7 or 8 loads with the same 120 slug that best 3000 fps. And ALL of those loads are using 47; 49 and 50 grains of various powders...??

In both cases you have to fireform to get their AI version so neither has the upper hand in ease of manufacture.
*well yes and no to your post. The .257 Roberts is the parent of the .257AI as we already know. But Ned made the .257 case by necking down the 7mm Mauser case. I'm not positive, but think the Mauser case predates the 30-06 case by a year or two.

* looking at the AA loading manual (first one I picked up) I see that 49.5 grains of AA4350 is good for 3020fps out of a 26" barrel (max). There's a faster load with 3100, but they don't make it anymore. This is a true Ackley case instead of the 28 or 30 degree shouldered improved case designs. 47.0 grains of 2700 will get you about 2960fps. I have two Hornaday manuals, and the older one list three rounds in the 2900 fps range using a 28 degree shoulder and a 24" barrel. Ackley also published several 3000fps loads in his books.

* Now last time I looked Forster has .257AI die sets on the shelf without having to pay the premium price for others. That's a little bit of extra cash in your pocket..

Load data for a 25-06AI maybe hard to come by (I have only one set, and it's suspect). But it's easy to come by for the .257. I personally would have opted for the 6.5-06 over the 25-06. Ackley has stated more than once that the main reason for the improved 06 case was to stop brass flow. I seriously doubt that you'll see much more than 3100fps with the improved case as it's already about as much as the .257 bore can handle.
gary
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:03 PM
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Re: .257 ai

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Originally Posted by Sully2 View Post
Advantage? A little more speed. Disadvantage: Having to fireform casings which is a PITA...
Actually the .257 Roberts improved is a very easy case to fire form. Just load the case up near max, and you pretty much done. You can simply shoot factory .257 loads in the improved chamber if you want, but I found max loads worked best.
gary
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