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100 yd ladder test?

 
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  #1  
Old 03-06-2007, 01:01 PM
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100 yd ladder test?

Is it worthwhile to do a ladder test at 100yds? It seems that most on here are done at 300yds.
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:41 PM
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Re: 100 yd ladder test?

[ QUOTE ]
Is it worthwhile to do a ladder test at 100yds? It seems that most on here are done at 300yds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This may not come as a surprise, but I don't think it's worthwhile to do a ladder test at ANY range.

They tell you nothing.

Read the other "ladder" threads.

.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:00 PM
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Re: 100 yd ladder test?

[ QUOTE ]
Is it worthwhile to do a ladder test at 100yds? It seems that most on here are done at 300yds.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as its done over a chrono, it can tell you a lot about the loads and their tolerance. When you are talking very accurate rifles, I think that velocity spread is as important as a few holes on a paper. Its quite easy to get the occasional cloverleaf group with a wide velocity spread (even at 300yds). The data a chronograph gives you is immune to the wind, your hold and random bullet variations on the way to the target. If you can select a load that has an extremely low velocity deviation, then you can fine tune it with seating depth etc. You can also verify with several 3 or 5 shot groups that the load DOES perform. Using the ladder method and verifying with numerous groups, you are very likely to end up with a great load. Even when its done at 100yds.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:05 PM
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Re: 100 yd ladder test?

[ QUOTE ]

This may not come as a surprise, but I don't think it's worthwhile to do a ladder test at ANY range.

They tell you nothing.

...

[/ QUOTE ]

No surprise CS, but I think 'nothing' is a bit strong.

A ladder test done over a chronograph tells you a lot, if you are open minded enough to listen.

For example, it tells you how tolerant different loads are to load densities. It tells you which load densities are wildly inconsistent and also narrows down the areas 'nodes' that are LIKELY to contain the best most consistent loads.

Once you find the AREAS / NODES that are likely to contain the best load, then you make some up and shoot them.


Don
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2007, 02:34 PM
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Re: 100 yd ladder test?

Don... any test that is not repeatable is worth NOTHING.

Run your favorite ladder test, and then repeat it with the exact same loads.

If the results are not the same, then you have not run a test, you have collected a bunch of non-related numbers.

This not "my" opinion, this is basic scientific testing methodology and procedures.

.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:22 PM
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Re: 100 yd ladder test?

IF it is not repeatable with any system you are stating the obvious, so that malady applies to any technique not just the ladder.

I have run ladder tests routinely for 6 yrs and in every case they are repeatable. I have never seen a test where I picked a load to work from and fine tuning it, the MV etc changed out of the norm.

If they are not, then you have another problem other than ammo.

A ladder is not the end, but rather the start of the fine tuning.

BH
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2007, 03:31 PM
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Re: 100 yd ladder test?

[ QUOTE ]
Don... any test that is not repeatable is worth NOTHING.

Run your favorite ladder test, and then repeat it with the exact same loads.

If the results are not the same, then you have not run a test, you have collected a bunch of non-related numbers.

This not "my" opinion, this is basic scientific testing methodology and procedures.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

From Wikipedia:
Scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge, as well as for correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical, measurable evidence, subject to specific principles of reasoning.


So, let me get this straight.

I gather DATA that IS related by running numerous tests (shots), while adjusting a single independent variable (load density). Then I look at the data (velocity) and how it relates to the independent variable (load density). I then take that set of data and use it to adjust the independent variable with finer changes to gather additional DATA within that variables range. You're telling me that it is worth NOTHING???

But you can shoot 3 shots with each load and ignore the variables of wind, your hold, differences in bullets etc. And that is a VALID test just because you now have 3 shots and call that a data point???

My goal is not to simply find an accurate load (thats easy). It is to find an accurate load that is somewhat load density tolerant.

BTW: I frankly don't care if its perfect scientific methodology. Its repeatable when you look at the data in total. Its likely that we would both end up with loads that are as good as a rifle is capable of shooting.
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