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Thoughts on second LR rifle.

 
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2005, 02:31 PM
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Re: Thoughts on second LR rifle.

FiftyDriver,

Thanks again for the replies. My LR shooting is without rangefinder or personal computer. Just a few 3x5 laminated cards with my drop charts, cosine chart and reticle size/yardage chart. (I made these myself based on actual shooting at ranges up to 1000yds, with the rifle and load I was using). Back then, you couldn't buy laser range finders!

It seems that with the cartridges we have access to today, palm pilots, rangefinders etc. It makes it quite a lot faster to determine shot placement. My 34" Muley, took me almost 15 minutes to range (pencil + paper + charts) 20 degree down angle.

I have a question I think you can answer for me.

My friend is a gunsmith by trade (nobody famous, just a journeyman, owns his own shop and does good work). I have shot several of his rifles and they shoot 3/8-1/2moa with me shooting them.
I asked him about all this 'blue printing, trueing etc.'. He kinda laughed and said "Its nothing special, just make sure everything is square and put'em together."
My question: Is all this super duper double dog dare LR gun building magic, really magic? Or is it just quality gunsmithing and good components?

Thanks,
AJ
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2005, 04:42 PM
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Re: Thoughts on second LR rifle.

AJ, buddy, you have got to get you a range finder! Seriously its that big of a deal. Spend the $350 and buy a bushnell 1500. IMO your fooling yourself if you try to get serious about LR without one. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2005, 04:52 PM
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Re: Thoughts on second LR rifle.

[ QUOTE ]
AJ, buddy, you have got to get you a range finder! Seriously its that big of a deal. Spend the $350 and buy a bushnell 1500. IMO your fooling yourself if you try to get serious about LR without one. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't mis-understand me. I haven't been able to hunt out west for several years. Back when I was hunting hard and shooting LR, you couldn't buy laser rangefinders because they didn't exist! I'll have the best I can find next time (next year) I go out west hunting.

20 some years ago is the last time I seriously hunted with LR in mind. I carried a protractor to estimate the angle, a drop chart I made based on actual shooting and calculated by hand. Next year, I'll have my PDA and a laser rangefinder.


AJ
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2005, 05:11 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: tennessee
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Re: Thoughts on second LR rifle.

[ QUOTE ]
"Back when I was hunting hard and shooting LR, you couldn't buy laser rangefinders because they didn't exist"

"I carried a protractor to estimate the angle, a drop chart I made based on actual shooting and calculated by hand. Next year, I'll have my PDA and a laser rangefinder'


AJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Man I'm glad those days are over. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


Then I think about mil-dots and stalks... Arghhhh! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2005, 07:00 PM
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Re: Thoughts on second LR rifle.

AJ

I'm the same as you. I still have my 25 year old 7mmWby with the 25 year old 6X18 Redfield with the ranging stadia and the first generation Kenton target turrets. 1200 yds worth of clicks and then 200 more using the plex. Spend nearly ten minutes ranging and reranging an animal and then pray that it was "normal" sized.

No internet back in those days, learned everything the hard way. Poor animals, it was pretty hard on them as many mistakes as I made.

Left the west and got heavy into bowhunting here in the east.

About a year ago I started thinking about retirement and a modern long range elk gun. Found out everything was computerized except for the toting of the gun. Remington will even sell you electric bullets.

Excuse me, I forgot, you don't even need to tote the gun anymore you can just sit at home and use your mouse.

As Roland says in Stephen King's Dark Tower, "the world has moved on"
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2005, 07:35 PM
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Re: Thoughts on second LR rifle.

BuffaloBob,

I didn't even have a scope that was made for estimating. What I did was mark a tall fencepost every 6", then backed off every 25 yards (300-1000) and figured out where I needed to dial the magnification to use the duplex reticle to cover a certain distance on the fencepost (kinda like what Leupold does now). A little work off those numbers and the size of the animal I was hunting and I had a lot of good data to use for ranging and hold over. It might take me 10-15 minutes to range the animal, then another couple minutes to deduce holdover and dial the scope to figure out where on the hillside I needed to aim with either the crosshair or the lower point on the duplex. (don't forget the wind drift [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

I used to shoot a lot up to 1000yds and kept track of how the round shot (used as my drop chart). Always shot the same round at everything (154gr spirepoint, H4831 at around 3100fps).

As far as the animals go, I never had a problem, as I rarely shot in high wind, or when the animal was moving. Just too many added variables to try and compute.

Good luck on the retirement, I still have a few years ( 8 until my youngest is out of college), then I can start seriously playing again.

AJ

Oh, the good old days.

I sure miss hunting out west [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img], I can't even get in to hunting here in the east this year. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2005, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 4,226
Re: Thoughts on second LR rifle.

AJ

Several good calibers but bottom line is you will need either a large 30 case shooting the 240 SMK or a large case shooting the 300 SMK

You will need a gun weighing at least 20-25 lbs lbs with either the 30 cal or 338 and a muzzle brake is essential.

Magazine is not needed and just extra money for nothing in my opinion. You will end up single feeding anyway. Second any gun with mag is weaker in the action.

Buy a custom action such as the BAT or Python. Python is $950 and comes with trigger guard and 20 MOA tapered rings in either 1" or 30mm. $950 seems like a lot until you find out how much it costs to true a factory action and then find out it is only worth half what you paid and not nearly as smooth or accurate as the BAT or Python. The Python will handle any case you want.

Three things make accurate LR guns: good bullets, good cases and good barrels.

SMKs are good if sorted base to ogive.

Best cases are RWS, followed by Lapua and then Norma.

RWS cases are now available in larger calibers for $1-1.50 per case and 20 cases have worn out a barrel and then some.

Barrels, Broughton, Lilja, Hart etc.

I would build on the 338 Lapua case. Either in 30 cal or 338. Brass is now less than $1 each and will outlast 10 pieces of Rem in the RUM calibers. Second choice would be the 338/404 on the RWS case.

30"-34" barrel in barrel block with Holland or Answer brake.

Go to www.6mmbr.com and look at the recommended smiths. Look for Mark King in Pa. He is building on of the premier heavy guns now and is an expert LR hunter. He can build a top notch rig that is centered around his heavy gun stock with barrel block built in. He has several 338/404s that he shoots with also.

I have a 338 Lapua Ack Improved that is built on a custom Rampro action, 32" Lilja mounted in bedding block. It does 10 shot groups at 1000 in the 7-9" range and weighs about 26 lbs, but is a beast to shoot without the muzzlebrake.

As for rangefinders, go either with the Leica 1200 or if longer ranges, get a good coincidental like the B&S, Wilde or French copies.

BH
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