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short throats on Winchesters

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Unread 06-08-2004, 08:54 PM
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Location: Hermiston, Oregon
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short throats on Winchesters

Alright, now I'm mad. I proceeded to load up some 117g SBT's tonight with some RL-22 and H-4831. Well when it came time to bullet seating, I wanted to go with 3.250" as its the SAAMI OAL. It's always worked in my old Ruger and you can go out to 3.250" on my dads Ruger. Hell, even right next to the 117g it says 3.250" Well let me tell you I cant even get close to seating them out to 3.250" Not even 3.2" There still getting jammed into the lands and its scuffing the bullet up real bad. My main question is this, are all Winchesters like this or did I get a bad one? Usually I know that for the lighter weight bullets you have to seat them down farther, but with 100g and over, I've never had a problem going to 3.250" in 2 other 25-06's. Whats the deal here? I also tried seating some 87g sierras to there advertised 3.150" and they are harder then heck to get the bolt to close while still showing the marks that there hitting the lands. I am pretty mad now because I know theres nothing me personally I can do. Any comments or help as what to do is greatly appreciated.
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Unread 06-09-2004, 05:42 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 4,787
Re: short throats on Winchesters


Maybe I missed something. What is the problem here.

Jam seating just to reach a max SAAMI aol is not always the best for accuracy.

Key question is where does the gun like them seated and then seated at that point will they load into the mag. Max aol is just what fits in the mag.

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Unread 06-09-2004, 07:25 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: scotland
Posts: 174
Re: short throats on Winchesters

you need to get yourself a bullet comparator and find out the length of your loaded rounds in relation to the ogive on the bullet and the lands of your rifling.

col or oal doesn't mean anything in terms of accuracy or how the rifle shoots. and i'd say that there is something wrong if the col in the manual is putting the bullet into the rifling on your winchester.

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Unread 06-09-2004, 01:57 PM
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Location: Hermiston, Oregon
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Re: short throats on Winchesters

I have noticed Nosler doesn't specifically say so, but next to the Sierra 50th Anniversary manual, right underneath the bullet, it says cartridge OAL 3.250" I have experience loading the 25-06 in my old Ruger and my dad has a Ruger 25-06. I can put the loaded 3.250" 117g shell into my dads gun and close the bolt without the slightest problem. You slide that shell into my gun (winchester) even at 3.2" and its got marks all over it. Even at 3.150" its got marks all over it. Marks being the lands. Not to mention, you almost have to get a rubber mallet to get the bolt to close. Now I know accuracy has a little role with the bullets seated out longer. 90% of my loads for the 25-06 are 3.225" or 3.250" I cant even use them for a starting point in this Winchester. It makes me mad because I know that if the accuracy is not there, this has to be the main reason. Everybody else's 25-06 I see usually seat out to at least 3.2" as well, if not the longest advertised of 3.250" for there loads. Why is this gun so much different? I still have PLENTY of room in the magazing box when these are seated out to 3.250" thats not the problem. The problem is inside the chamber. I did buy the gun from a military surplus store that sells 10 used guns to 1 new gun. This one was advertised as "new" with a box. I looked it over best I could and so did my dad, we both came to the conclusion it was indeed "new." In my eyes, this is a very stupid big problem for me. It should not be happening and its put me in a very bad mood because today was the calmest day we've had in weeks, and I cant shoot any loads becuase none of them fit. Even with the books OAL or my OAL's. Maybe this is why I never really liked Winchesters. One problem after another.

Does it make sense that I should have to load the 117g SBT to anything lower than 3.150"? It just does not look right, or sound right, and even seated that far down, still get the land marks and hardness of the bolt to close. The past 2 Rugers I have loaded for were the MKII S/S. Like I said, the 3.250" shell will fit into my dads Ruger without a problem, and I can bet it would have fit in my old Ruger without a problem. I know usally, that varmint bullets you needed to seat down farther because of the ogive and they would get stuck in the lands. I've never been able to seat a 75g v-max at 3.250" I know that for a fact, but my 75g v-max was seated out to 3.2" in my Ruger and they fit without a problem. All I know is, something is not right and I hope I can fix the problem, or I"ll be getting rid of this gun. I'm not going to be loading 117g SBT's at the lowest possible length when I know they should be fitting in the gun without problems at 3.250" End of story. I'll just have to take it to a gunsmith, even though I should not have to do so.
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Unread 06-09-2004, 05:08 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Urich, MO
Posts: 838
Re: short throats on Winchesters

Okay, take a deep breath! You are missing the point- the length of the Ruger or any other gun doesn't matter. In fact the length of the Winchester doesn't matter.
Seat the 117s at the lands or 10 thou off and shoot it and see what it likes. It doesn't matter if the OAL is 3.25 or 3.150, if the rifle shoots with the bullet placed where I mentioned.
Most people are plagued with a long throat that they can't even come close to reaching and still fit in the mag. So what I am saying is the short throat can be a good thing.
Bottom line is shoot the gun first and then look for a problem/solution if the rifle does not live up to your expectations.
Chris Matthews
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Unread 06-10-2004, 08:41 AM
Posts: n/a
Re: short throats on Winchesters

Before I start loading for a new rifle or load a different bullet I check the max COL (many ways to do that). You have little chance of a load working good in your new rifle that shot good in your old rifle. I have owned 4 270 win. and loaded for 2 others and none shoot the same load. Different powders, bullet weight, COL for all guns. Start with the basics for your new rifle and it will probably shoot good when you find the right combo.
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