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Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

 
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  #1  
Old 12-18-2012, 11:38 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 54
Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

Hello everyone!

First post from a pistol guy that has been bitten by the long range bug! While LR shooting is very different from the pistol shooting Iím used to, I have really started to develop the same passion for it that I had/still have for pistols. I did a broad search, but couldnít find exactly what Iím looking for so I thought Iíd make this post.


I'm starting to get some ideas for my first LR gun, and want to make sure I'm headed down the right path. What Iím looking for from you guys with FAR more experience than I have, is some recommendations, or points to consider, based on the following criteria.


Intended Use:
Strictly a range gun. I'm not a hunter, and pretty sure I'll never turn into one!




Basic Criteria:
  • Looking for the best out of the box LR TARGET (ONLY) rifle Ė this will not be used for hunting.
  • We have 2 main ranges here, so distance is up to 1K yards. I would say about 60% of my range time will be at 100 yards (as that range is much closer to me), with the other 40% at distances up to 1K yards.
  • The 2 calibers Iím most familiar with are .223 (AR-15) and 300 WM.
  • I have some small children, and am working on a second business, so reloading is something I donít really have the time for right now. Thatís why Iím looking for the best out of the box Target caliber with factory loads. I *may* get into reloading at a later date, but weíre talking at least a year or two down the road.
Goals:
Develop proficiency out to 1K yards, with the ability to *consistently* group .25 to .5 at 100 yards.


Budget:
$2K to $3K range, trying to stay closer to the $2K, of course. I also have the mindset that the glass is going to cost about 2x what the rifle does to get the kind of accuracy Iím looking for.


Thanks again for your help, and please let me know if there is any other info you need, or criteria for me to consider!
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2012, 12:48 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Posts: 314
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGlockGuy View Post
Hello everyone!

First post from a pistol guy that has been bitten by the long range bug! While LR shooting is very different from the pistol shooting Iím used to, I have really started to develop the same passion for it that I had/still have for pistols. I did a broad search, but couldnít find exactly what Iím looking for so I thought Iíd make this post.


I'm starting to get some ideas for my first LR gun, and want to make sure I'm headed down the right path. What Iím looking for from you guys with FAR more experience than I have, is some recommendations, or points to consider, based on the following criteria.


Intended Use:
Strictly a range gun. I'm not a hunter, and pretty sure I'll never turn into one!




Basic Criteria:
  • Looking for the best out of the box LR TARGET (ONLY) rifle Ė this will not be used for hunting.
  • We have 2 main ranges here, so distance is up to 1K yards. I would say about 60% of my range time will be at 100 yards (as that range is much closer to me), with the other 40% at distances up to 1K yards.
  • The 2 calibers Iím most familiar with are .223 (AR-15) and 300 WM.
  • I have some small children, and am working on a second business, so reloading is something I donít really have the time for right now. Thatís why Iím looking for the best out of the box Target caliber with factory loads. I *may* get into reloading at a later date, but weíre talking at least a year or two down the road.
Goals:
Develop proficiency out to 1K yards, with the ability to *consistently* group .25 to .5 at 100 yards.


Budget:
$2K to $3K range, trying to stay closer to the $2K, of course. I also have the mindset that the glass is going to cost about 2x what the rifle does to get the kind of accuracy Iím looking for.


Thanks again for your help, and please let me know if there is any other info you need, or criteria for me to consider!
.25MOA at 100? Learn to reload. If not you can choose the 223 or 308. Or the 223 or 308 lol. Not a lotta choice. And .25MOA? Well if ya buy a 308 or 223 and it CONSISTENTLY does .25 moa please post MEGA MILLIONS lottery #s for us poor folk lol. Cuz you just blasted the jackpot baby!
Reloading isnt that tuff nor does it take up much time. I consider it impossible to do LR without a press. Course Im a snob too. A savage f class in 223 or 308 comes to mind and spend the 1-2k you save one even better glass and a reloading press. I cant stress enough how much the 1000yd game requires it. And yes michele gallagher would paste me with factory 308 stuff....but not by much.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2012, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 54
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

Thanks so much for the response. I really appreciate it.

After thinking this over, and talking to a friend of mine that is a reloader about the actual process, time and expense of reloading, I was really surprised to hear it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. The biggest thing with me is the lack of time, but after talking to my friend, it doesn't sound like the press is something you need to set up and tear down every time you use it. In fact, he mentioned that once it's set up, you can just knock some rounds out each night and stock yourself up for the next trip out to the range. That doesn't sound too bad. Plus the fact that I'm severely OCD, so having control over that part of the equation makes it even better!

As far as the .25-.5 MOA stuff, I've heard of at least one manufacturer that has the .5 guarantee. I thought that meant just in stock trim, or with whatever glass they provided. I was thinking that spending some real $ on a great optic would make .5 the low end of the range, but it sounds like that might be a more realistic goal to shoot for once I have everything tuned for that gun.

Speaking of which, that's what I'm looking to have happen, and I appreciate the info on that preciserifleammo.com sight! Once I have the load(s) set up, I think I'm just going to really focus on working on my skills and not messing with a gun that is far more accurate than I am.

So after this new info, here's another question for you guys.

If I take on the reloading part, does that make the .25 MOA a lot more realistic, or is it still a high bar?
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2012, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,093
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

If you are going to range shoot only, the 308 is the way to go. The 223 won't cut it to 1k compared to the 308. This is only my opinion but its correct.

0.25 to 0.50 MOA is gonna be a pot shot with and out of the box factory rifle. Not to say that it can't happen.

If that factory out of the box is your only option, before its ever fired, do the bedding thing, pillar and skim. Threads on here to show how those things are done. Not hard to do well, the first time by someone with your experience.

Do some trigger work if necessary.

Your thinking on glass is proper.

Next step would be to break in the barrel. Go to Lilja's web site for a way to do that.

While doing the break in shoot for groups to get an "idea" of how it shoots. If it breaks in quickly that will be good. If not, run a full dose of Tubbs Final Finish through it. and see how she shoots. Usually there will be an improvement.

Except for the Tubbs process I am assuming factory loads. If the barrel excessively copper fouls after say 20 shots I'd do the Tubbs thing.

With factory loads you are going to get what you are going to get.

As stated in the above post a press and dies is almost a must to attempt to attain your accuracy goal. It isn't that much in $ when compared to factory ammo costs.

By reloading, your bullet, power and primer selection will be greatly increased allowing you to "find" the combination of components and seating depth that works best in your rifle. Which will make you range shooting much more economical, efficient and enjoyable.

I've learned over the years that rifle and load preparation is much more effective than throwing tons of lead down range.

As for manufactures I suggest either Remington or Savage as they seem to me to be the easiest to work on. Plus with the Savage barrels and bolt faces can be changed to be able to also go the 223 route.


Just some thoughts.
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2012, 12:09 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 819
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

This is what I would do.......I would buy a Remington 5R in .308 (substitute Sendero or AAC/SPS varmint plus a new stock). I would put a Jewell trigger in it and shoot it to see if it turns in acceptable results. If it does you got off cheap. If it doesn't I'd spend the rest of the money you were going to spend on rebarreling it with a good match quality barrel. Here is where you'll get your accuracy guarantee and where you can switch calibers if you want to.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Western Pa.
Posts: 165
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

Roll on over to AccurateShooter.com and check out the 6BR caliber. It will do everything you are looking to do and be very cost effective doing it. 6mm bullits are cheap and lapua makes the brass. Good luck with your project...
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2012, 11:30 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 54
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armored Transport View Post
Roll on over to AccurateShooter.com and check out the 6BR caliber. It will do everything you are looking to do and be very cost effective doing it. 6mm bullits are cheap and lapua makes the brass. Good luck with your project...

That is impressive, and after some more reading, the 6BR is now my first choice. I'm still in the research phase, but I'm getting it narrowed down!

Thanks again everyone for your help. It is GREATLY appreciated!!!
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