I would agree with most on this topic, do not get caught up in big magnum rounds thinking you need one to get into long range shooting.(many will be supprised with that comment coming from me [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!!!)
Your most important thing right now is to learn to load and shoot. That means you should select a round that is "easy" to load for. That would range from anything like a 308 Win up to a 300 Win Mag. The choice is really yours and you need to be honest with what you can handle in recoil. Go out and find guys with different calibers and shoot them and see what you like and do not like.
Again, be totally honest with you , if a 300 Win kicks more then you would like to subject yourself to do not get ego bound and get one jsut because someone says it is a wonder round. There is no such thing as a wonder round. You are the key componant to making long range hits consistantly.
Personally I would look into something in the 7mm-08 to 308 range on the small end in a factory rifle that has good potential for building on down the road. In my opinion that is a Rem 700.
On the top end something like a 7mm WSM or 300 WSM is plenty of power to reach out to 2000 yards if you are up to the challange with your ammo and shooting skill.
The key is to get a rifle that you can build on so that when you master the round you have you can build an extreme accuracy rifle on that same rifle and this will save you anywhere from $400 to $600 to get a new receiver to build your next rifle if you want more down the road.
My advise also, forget about 1500 yards right now. This will come but probably not for several years. there are things you need to learn that will amaze and frustrate you to no end until you work through them. This is the challange of the sport so if you hit road blocks take comfort in knowing we all have from time to time.
Start shooting at 500 yards. This is a dramatically more difficult task then 200 or even 300 yards shooting. Get accustom to the range, get familiar with your bullets flight out to this range and most importantly, use this range as a filter for your long range ammunition.
Many loads will shoot good at 100 yards, even 200 and 300 yards. At 500 yards, the good loads will show themselves clearly from the OK loads. Use this range as a tool in developing good ammo and then you can proceed to the next level.
This does not mean 1000 yards like most think is the next step. I prefer 700 to 800 yard and this is again a major step in ranging ability. 500 yards will become routine but at 800 yards you will learn dramatically what wind drift and bullet drop really mean. Both begin to get severe.
At this range learn to read and dope the wind as well as tweak your load and learn more on your bullets drop at this range as well as everything closer.
Once you have a grasp at 800 yards then go to a full 1000 yards. This will show you instantly what level of shooting you and your equipment are at. Most shooters are extremely suprised and often return to the closer ranges as shooting at 1000 yards can be extremely difficult even for experienced shooters.
Past this is really for the elite and few ever get proficient enough to play in the 1500 yard range with consistant hitting ability. It is certainly possible and even practical but it is very difficult.
Take baby steps and lean as much as you can about your rifle and load as you go.
For learning about long range shooting, this is about the best web site I have seen. Hang around here, ask questions and read alot. DO what the top guys are doing because there is no need to reinvent the wheel, just cost alot of money and time!!
As far as big game hunting out past 600 yards or so, I would say practice extensively at ranges out to 800yards for at least 3 seasons before you ever take a shot at big game. Remember that if you wound an animal at +800 yards, more then likely you will loose the animal. There are no good second shot chances at 800 yards and out on a wounded animal.
Varmints is a different story and about the best practice you can get.
Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.
AHEM guys... Getting back on subject for our new member.
270izzy. As you are finding there is a ton of information here about almost any question you have. I would encourage you to go back through the pages and pages of info in the subjects that interest you most and read the topics that interest you.
Also take advantage of the search function to find particular topics that interest you.
Seek and ye shall find.
(I would start with a Remington Varmint laminated stock (Rem VLS) in .308 learn how to propperly break in your barrel and how to make quality handloads. Spend as much on your scope as you do on the rifle and get one with target turrets as you will be adjusting your scope constantly. This will be different than regular short range hunting.
(Hey Fifty, you snuck that one in on me.)
Good luck and welcome to the LRH forums.)
GRAVITY. It's not just a good idea. It's the LAW!
Why not tune up your 270. I shoot out to 700y with a factory 270 win with a little work done to it. You have shot that gun for a while and know how it shoots. If you want to spend a few bucks get some accuracy work done on the REM and shoot it as far as it will go. The Blistic tip, accubond, SST, interbond, Sierra Match King, and Wildcat bullets will all get you beyond 500 yards. You can't spend too much on optics and if you go top end the scope will out live you. When you can out shoot the 270 and move up to that longrange gun the scope can go with you. Spend your money on reloading supplies and shoot. If you need a different rifle than the 308 is the way to go for learning on.
Ric, Fiftydriver, trader388, and others.....
I hope you don't mind, but rather than using the quote feature over and over, im going to post your statements, alegations, and accusations in plain text so I can respond to them more easily, in between. Sorry if its a bit harder to follow.
factory stick except for trigger shooting 8" group at 1350 yards....
you have 1412 FULL POWER WM rounds down the tube and a total of 2502 rounds....
OK I belive in alot of things but I am having a HARD time beliveing this....
most 300WM tubes are good for 1500 rounds .... then accuracy usually goes south.....
you have 1000 more down it... reguardless if they were reduced loads or not.... wear is wear....
you must have the mother of all savages rifles not to mention factory tubes....
sorry man.... I just can't seem to choke this one down....
If I am wrong I appologize openly and publicly...
Factory yes, completly stock no. Either way, yes, its mostly as it came from the factory.
I know that my round count is accurate because I have documented every one. The first 400ish were federal factory ammo loaded with 180 sierra pro hunters. I got a good deal on a case the same time I bought the rifle, and Figured on shooting these until I got into handloading. I have been reloading the same brass ever since(with some win and rem componets bought in the mean time). This is my second factory savage barrel (bought the one im shooting now as a takeoff), and my third barrel on this rifle. Ive seen more accurate rifles, including some savages, and this is a good tube, except for the fact that after about 25 rounds of full power stuff, it copper fouls horrably. I have shot more than 50rds of my 90gr load in a single setting without accuracy dropping off....
That is a HELL of a group, I am not saying it did not happen as if you say it did I would not question that but the odds of it happening are extremely low. Was this group with your reduced loads.
I shot that group, and most that I shoot at this range with 220SMK over 73gr of H1000.
Lsat I checked the Millet really had limited veritcal elevation adjustment range, so much though that even with a 20 moa bass it would be hard pressed to reach 1500 yards with full tilt 300 Win Mag loads. You must have been using the lower mild dots for aiming points for past 1600 yard shooting.
This scope has 555 1/8moa clicks. 69.375 moa. This rifle is zeroed for 500yds, and I have 7.5 moa left under the 500yd zero. I can click down to 250yd zero if I like. Usually I hold under using the mildots. The millet is not marked on the zoom ring for the magnification at which it is = to 1mil, so I set up a known size target at 400, and calibrated/marked it myself. In the 55-60 degree weather we have been having here lately, im using 41.75 moa of elevation to get to 1350.
Going to 1600 took 58.75moa. Temp was just over 90. I have 4moa left at this distance. Yes, I usually use the dots past 1600.
Anyway, what is your averge group size at this range. If your holding honest 1 moa group averages at 1000 yards or beyond, you better get to every 1000 yard BR match you can because you will win everyone or at least be very competitive.
Most are running between 1.13moa and 1.67moa. My largest group at 1350 was the second one I ever shot at 2.19moa, or 31". I have never shot 1000BR, and since there arent any close, it will probably be a while. Before you forget, this is a 3 shot group with a called flyer. 4 shots in13". These were fired in a almost perfectly calm wind condition, and under my own terms. Not under the time constraints of sanctioned competition, not 5 shot groups, and not 10 shot groups.
Kirby, isn't the 5 shot IBS record (the closest thing to which this could be easliy compares) still 1.996"
Maybe my calculator is out of wack, but thats a fair bit under 1moa.
That puts it into perspective how amazing that shot is that you made.
I don't know what else I can say to convince you guys,
consider this an open invitation to anybody in the area to come by and have a look.
***1 condition though, you gotta bring a gun***.
If you don't want to shoot at 1350, I can set up smaller portables as close as 900 where I shoot 1350, and I have 100-400yd berms in front of my benchrest here at the house. Otherwise, its a 15min drive to the other property for distances between 400 and 900. Im smack in the middle of Oklahoma, 30 miles southwest of OKC. Post over in the general discussion area, or email me if you are interested, because I hate to devote more space in this area to this kind of junk.
This invitation is open to people who want to shoot, as well as those interested in urinating for distance. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
And lest I forget trader388's post, the only bs around here is from the registered polled herefords my family raises..
To the origional poster, 270izzy, sorry for derailing your topic, if only for a little bit.
If you want to buy a new gun by all means go buy a new gun.
If you want to learn long range shooting then just get your 270 and go shoot until you burn the barrel out as Harv suggests. practice practice practice. When it is snowing or raining take your gun apart and look at the bedding. Mess it up as much as you want because you are going to get a new one anyway in a year or so. Adjust the trigger adjust the bedding, take the scope off and reset it so you can get max elevation. If you warp the tube so what, this is just your practice gun and you are going to get a new one anyway. You need to learn what make a gun tick and what makes it not tick and learn this on your practice gun. The only valuable part of this gun is the action. Not learning to reload is not an option, even this is practice practice practice. You have to be able to produce high quality ammo that is customized to your specific needs.
When you can make your 400 yd shots then you start with the 500 yd and so forth. If you start now trying to extend your range it will probably take you several years before you should be shooting over 500 yds at any game animal. Perhaps if you are not married, do not have children do not have to work for a living and are independently wealthy you can do it faster. Think of it as a mountain to be climbed and a challenge to be achieved and most of all a very enjoyable journey to excellence.
I have in my life seen remarkable feats with the 308 out to extreme ranges. With total respect for the 308 round I decline to ever own one, but there is a huge 308 fan club out there. You have a good caliber already.
Again, I am not saying it did not happen nor that you and your rifle can not perform this well at this range, simply saying it is a rare factory rifle for sure that will reach this level of consistancy.
Averageing 1.5 moa is truely impressive for a factory pipe, hell there are alot of full blown custom rifles that will not do this, or better said, their owners can not do this.
Again, I am not flaming you in any way, just realize how rare this is to get a factory rifle to shoot to this level at this range.
I do not know of the record you listed. I know more of the 50 BMG 1000 yard records and they are in the very low 2" range at 1000 yards but these are with umlimited rifles weighting up to 100 lbs not an 11 lb factory rifle.
Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.
Sorry if I came off a bit hostile, but I get this a lot. As to the fact that most factory rifles aren't driven well enough to realize 1.5MOA acuracy, I tend to agree. During my 4 year stint at a public range I saw several people shoot the concrete floor, about 10 yds downrange. Not to mention the bench they were shooting from.
The record I mentioned was shot (I believe) at the club in Montana.
Maybe im just spoiled from my 3p smallbore days, but my first group at 1350 was 21". Maybe I shoulda been happier.
To everybody else, the invite still stands, If you want to shoot some LR in OK, my door is open. If its too windy though, you might have to help spot the puffs of dust from my lowly savage. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] In the spring, it might take a while for the cattle to graze by too....