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Long Range Rifle

 
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  #15  
Old 06-11-2009, 03:28 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 145
Re: Long Range Rifle

This is an honest no underlying motive here question.

Let me first say that I have never killed or have any knowlege about what it takes to kill a grizzly.

But what is the average wieght of an average grizzly taken? Yeah we have all seen those huge beasts that people have killed. But when I look around at Cabelas and BassPro for the most part the grizzy bear they have stuffed are not your 700lb beasts. More like 400lb beasts. Not that I would want to tangle with a 400lb bear in any case.

And what is the average weight of a mature bull elk? Some where in the nieghbor hood of 600lbs?

So how much more would it really take to kill a similar size bear compared to similar size elk?

I know there is the danger factor about looking for a wounded bear where as a wounded elk wouldn't be as dangerous. Although I wouldn't want either chaising after me.

Just a thought. Oh yeah none of this has to do with what I think is a ethical kill just what would it really take.
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  #16  
Old 06-11-2009, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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Re: Long Range Rifle

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowaboy View Post
This is an honest no underlying motive here question.

Let me first say that I have never killed or have any knowlege about what it takes to kill a grizzly.

But what is the average wieght of an average grizzly taken? Yeah we have all seen those huge beasts that people have killed. But when I look around at Cabelas and BassPro for the most part the grizzy bear they have stuffed are not your 700lb beasts. More like 400lb beasts. Not that I would want to tangle with a 400lb bear in any case.

And what is the average weight of a mature bull elk? Some where in the nieghbor hood of 600lbs?

So how much more would it really take to kill a similar size bear compared to similar size elk?

I know there is the danger factor about looking for a wounded bear where as a wounded elk wouldn't be as dangerous. Although I wouldn't want either chaising after me.

Just a thought. Oh yeah none of this has to do with what I think is a ethical kill just what would it really take.
This is a good question and here's my view.

First, the average adult interior Alaska griz is probably about 300-600 lb and the average mature bull elk probably weighs about 700-900 lbs. Both are tough creatures, but I would have to say the griz might be a little tougher. I dont think anyone can give imperical evidence of that, but that is my belief. Aslo, there is almost never a guarantee of a DRT whem shooting a big game animal especially a griz or an elk. If I had to track one, I would much rather it be the elk, but that's just me

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 07-06-2009 at 09:31 AM.
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2009, 11:16 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 121
Re: Long Range Rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
This is a good question and here's my view.

First, the average adult interior Alaska griz is probably about 300-600 lb and the average mature bull elk probably weighs about 700-900 lbs. Both are tough creatures, but I would have to say the griz might be a little tougher. I dont think anyone can give imperical evidense of that, but that is my belief. Aslo, there is almost never a guarantee of a DRT whem shooting a big game animal especially a griz or an elk. If I had to track one, I would much rather it be the elk, but that's just me
I'm new here, and don't intend to contradict. From my experience, bears have never been difficult to drop with the first shot. (dis)Similarly, I've never dropped or seen elk drop with the first shot.
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2009, 01:12 AM
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Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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Re: Long Range Rifle

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportmuaythai View Post
I'm new here, and don't intend to contradict. From my experience, bears have never been difficult to drop with the first shot. (dis)Similarly, I've never dropped or seen elk drop with the first shot.
I have never shot a bear, so all I can go by is what I hear and read, and that is that small bears go down quick with a good shot. Bigger bears may or may not go down quick. But whemn it comes to having to track an animal that may not go down quick, I would rather it be an elk and not a bear. I have shot two elk... a large bull at 15 yds with a 7mmRM which went down very quick and a cow which I broke the spine on.

Have you shot any grizzlies or elk?
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2009, 12:02 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sebastopol, ca.
Posts: 418
Re: Long Range Rifle

There is also a huge difference between a 400lb Black bear and a Grizzly.
Griz has a bad attitude in good conditions.
I too have never shot one but have watched quite a few and the power they have is amazing. They can move very fast and are unpredictable so to attempt a 500 plus yard shot on one in my opinion is not a responsible thing to do.
I was in Alaska as a salmon fishing guide and talked to several locals that hunted them and every one of them that had hunted bears had bad experiences. They scare the crap out of me. I was offered a job at a lodge in the Bristol Bay region and I asked if they had many bears and the guy said yeah there are tons. I asked him what kind of gun I could take with me and he told me you just yell at them and most of the time the move off. Most of the time??? What are you nuts.

The stories of how tough just the normal ones are they are once you irritate them with a poorly placed shot is not something I would want to track into the abnormally thick country they frequent. The willow and alder thickets are amazing.

Bottom line is you would need a big controlled expansion bullet and put it through both shoulders. Not something possible with a 7 mag at long range. The shot is not that hard but at anything over 250 or so you just don't have the penetration and energy required to drop him quickly . Lots of muscle and attitude. That's why the guides pack BIG hardware. The guides recommend 338 mag or above.

Just my opinions of course
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2009, 09:28 PM
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Posts: 121
Re: Long Range Rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrelduster View Post
There is also a huge difference between a 400lb Black bear and a Grizzly.
Griz has a bad attitude in good conditions.
I too have never shot one but have watched quite a few and the power they have is amazing. They can move very fast and are unpredictable so to attempt a 500 plus yard shot on one in my opinion is not a responsible thing to do.
I was in Alaska as a salmon fishing guide and talked to several locals that hunted them and every one of them that had hunted bears had bad experiences. They scare the crap out of me. I was offered a job at a lodge in the Bristol Bay region and I asked if they had many bears and the guy said yeah there are tons. I asked him what kind of gun I could take with me and he told me you just yell at them and most of the time the move off. Most of the time??? What are you nuts.

The stories of how tough just the normal ones are they are once you irritate them with a poorly placed shot is not something I would want to track into the abnormally thick country they frequent. The willow and alder thickets are amazing.

Bottom line is you would need a big controlled expansion bullet and put it through both shoulders. Not something possible with a 7 mag at long range. The shot is not that hard but at anything over 250 or so you just don't have the penetration and energy required to drop him quickly . Lots of muscle and attitude. That's why the guides pack BIG hardware. The guides recommend 338 mag or above.

Just my opinions of course
It's good that we're discussing opinions and views, same as MontanaRifleman and yours truly. I fully agree that a poorly placed shot will certainly pump the poor soul with adrenalin, grizzly or elk. Also, most responsible guides will get client to within 200yards. I've killed a grizzly in Yukon that won my guide a silver buckle and a plaque for myself. Caliber was 270 win. The grizzly measured less than 8ft.sq. I've killed a small black bear in Yukon, and a huge black bear at Duck Mountain, Manitoba, over baiting stand. I've also killed a beautiful blond sow in Alaska Pen that measured 8'4" with 30-06imp,165grain bullet. The sow's skull was quite larger than the Yukon griz. I've killed 9'+ polar and Russian griz that was just shy of 9'sq. with 300 win mag. I also witnessed 2 Russian griz killed. Both were maimed with badly placed first shot, but fell quickly with well place bullets.
I've killed 2 bull elks, one in Montana and another in Hualapai reserv., AZ. Both were lung shot and went over 100 yards. A huge bull moose I shot (in the lung) running, in Yukon dropped within 5 yards. But most of all I saw a bull elk shot with 30-378Wby that flew off its four feet, only to strugle back on its feet before being shot again.
Again, these are just my experiences, and like what MontanaRifleman said, all animals have different tenacity.
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  #21  
Old 07-06-2009, 02:00 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hermiston, Oregon
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Re: Long Range Rifle

I've seen plenty of elk drop DRT with shoulder hits from 7 mags, 300 win mags, 338 win mags, 300 RUM's, all from 100-900 yards. Most were spikes, but some were nice 5 and 6 points. I dont find elk all that hard to kill when you put a decent bullet through there shoulders.

Never killed any grizzlies, I'd love to go and shoot one though. Between my 7 RM w/175g and 338 EDGE w/250g, I'd probly opt for the 338 EDGE. It sure would make me feel better even if the bear dont know the difference, I still do...
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