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Little help please

 
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2004, 03:11 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,310
Re: Little help please

camming:

the shellholder should hit the base of the die before it is at the bottom of the stroke--after it hits the die, keep pushing of the handle and it will CAM over (pushing even harder against the bottom of the die) and this removes the play/flex from the system.

clear as mud.

so even though you are CAMMING over on the die, the case still doesnt completely enter the die when sizing?

when FL sizing there should be no gap between the shellholder and die (with, or without the case involved.

sounds like to case is physically too hard for your press to push the shoulder back--hence the gap even though it cams with no case present.

im confuzzled [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

JB
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2004, 03:54 PM
LB LB is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 423
Re: Little help please

yeah. so simple and yet, so confusing.

It almost sounds, to me like you might be screwing the die in, way too far, at this point? If you do that, the case will go up into the die as far as you can force it, and yet, the handle isn't as far as it should go. And, you don't (and can't) get caming action with just arm pressure, alone. IF you are not getting the complete stroke, it won't toggle over.

This is a situation where a thousand words doesn't compare to a brief demonstration.

Start over, and read your directions very carefully. In fact, it might be helpful to start with the die and the shellplate having something on the order of a quater inch gap, when all the way up. Then, begin screwing the die in until you make contact. Then back off (a little) on the handle and screw the die in a turn at a time, until you feel a toggling operation, as you repeat the last portion of the stroke. At some point, you will feel this toggling.....unless you go past it!

If you do that, you should be able to tell that you have because your stroke will be actually shorter, and will CONTINUE to get incrementally shorter with every additional clockwise adjustment. If you go PAST the toggle point, it will NEVER cam over, the more you screw it in. Your stroke will just get shorter and shorter, like going from a 180 arc to 178, and so on. This will be your only clue.

Consequently, you will not be using the mechanical leverage built into the press, and depending on your chamber dimentions, you might not be strong enough to force the shoulder back where it belongs. In other words, this doesn't have anything to do with Winchesters. It has to do with the difference between full length, and neck sizing.

Geeze, this is really clear as mud, ain't it?

Don't give up, you will catch on. LB

[ 11-23-2004: Message edited by: LB ]
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2004, 06:28 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 250
Re: Little help please

Remingtonman ,
Sounds from your last post like you have followed the correct procedure .
Have you checked your case lengths ? Winchester brass sometimes exceeds maximum length after only one firing .
If that's not the problem then I think I can explain the correct die setup procedure in a way that you'll easily understand so here goes ...

Quote : First I screwed in the FL die. I then put the handle all the way down, so that the shellholder would be all the way to the top. I then proceeded to screw it down 1/2 turn more so that the shell holder was hitting rather hard on the base of the die. I then lubed a case and ran it through.

After you ran the first case through and found it wouldn't chamber you screwed the die down another half turn right ? Next step lower the handle without a case in the shellholder and let it come to rest against the die but only under it's own weight . From that point if you apply some downward pressure on the press handle you should be able to feel it CAM over centre and lock down in a slightly lower position than it reached under it's own weight . This is the same point that the handle would reach if you lowered it without a die screwed in . It should only require a few pounds of pressure to get the handle to cam over .
If the above procedure sounds like what you have already done then your problem is likely with the die or shellholder . Are they from the same manufacturer ? If so your next move is to either shorten the die as described by Kirby or get a replacement under warranty . Sounds like it may have been manufactured outside correct tolerance . [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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  #11  
Old 12-26-2004, 04:11 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1
Re: Little help please

Remingtonman, I know this thread is old but did you ever get this resolved? It occured to me your problem could be that your expanderball is coming into contact with the base of the casing (on the inside). This would prevent the casing from going all the way up into the die. Back the expander assembly all the way out and try it!

Just a thought, Fletch

Just
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2005, 07:46 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fredericksburg VA
Posts: 4,118
Re: Little help please

Just to throw a little confusion into the situation, if you have not got it worked out try this.

Sometimes you resize too much and push out the edge of the shoulder and that causes it not to chamber. I never start with the die set to "cam over". Start high and work down. Too much resizing (ie pushing the shoulder back too far) is not good either.

Back the die up and then take a candle and smoke the case neck and shoulder. This allows you to see exact point of contact on the neck and shoulder.

Start sizing and moving the die down a half turn at a time until you can see inital shoulder contact on the case with the smoking.

At this point it helps to have a specially made bump guage, RCBS case mike or stoney point tool to measure the shoulder to base length. Super easy to measure inital unfired length, fired and then what you need to chamber.

It only takes .001 shoulder setback to chamber once you have it set.

Redding makes a set of competion shellholders that are .002 increments that allows you to bump the shoulder in .002 increments without ever changing the die setup. Cost is $35.

BH
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2005, 12:56 AM
McDoone
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Little help please

I'm not necessarily admitting to this one myself, but is it possible that the bottom of the handle on your press may be projecting through and contacting the bench before it reaches the end of it's stroke?
This can hapen with one brand of press. Causes some real inconsistancies with the LOA, also.
Real easy to fix, you just cut some clearance into the wood.
Real easy to confirm, you just check for the depression in the wood below the handle.
(At this point, you should try not to put a forehead sized depression in the drywall beside the bench. It is possible to avoid this step, but quite difficult.)
If this is happening, you do not get enough leverage to operate the press for full length sizing, except with very small cartridges.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:05 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Little help please

My sugestion is to have about .005" machined of of the bottom of the die. I have done several of these to solve the problem of not being able to bump the sholder back. Then you do not have to abuse the press by bumping the shell holder so hard.
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