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Little help please

 
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  #1  
Old 11-19-2004, 01:21 PM
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Little help please

I am having a bit of trouble getting my resized cases to fit in my dads Winchester black shadow in .270 WSM. I have the die adjusted to where when your all the way up on the handle, the base is almost touching the shell holder. To my understanding this is as far as I can go and there still not going into the rifle at all. My dad is gettin a little mad because his last Winchester did the same thing. I really dont know what to do, any suggestions please?
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2004, 01:49 PM
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Re: Little help please

um, the shellholder should be CAMMING fairly hard off the bottom of the die to get a FLsize!

if you arent touching hte bottom of the die and camming to make up for the slack in the press, then you arent even touching the shoulder.

with stock dies, you need to cam hard to bump the shoulder back--otherwise you run into your current situation [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

screw the die down till the shell holder hits it HARD and the press handle cams over--then size and chamber--

this should fix your problem.

JB

[ 11-19-2004: Message edited by: jb1000br ]
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2004, 02:15 PM
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Re: Little help please

Rem-man

Follow JB's advice. If that still doesn't work it may be that you have a too long die or a too high shell holder, or both. It is possible to take a little off the bottom of the die. However, it is very hard and requires grinding or a lathe and carbide cutter. You might also ask your shooting buddies if any of them have dies for the same caliber and try them. Third, try smoking a fired case and chamber it. That will tell you what still needs to be sized. It may not be the shoulder at all but rather some other point on the case. On second thought, try this step first.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:01 PM
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Re: Little help please

I agree with the above posts.

Also, just screwing the die down to touch the shell holder may not be enough as when there is a case in the shell holder, the compression of the system will be severl thousandths.

Most of my rifles are cut to very min specs. In rifles like this, many times a conventional sizing die will just barely bump the shoulder. TO get the most sizing out of your die screw the die down hard against the empty shell holder and then lower the ram and insert a lubed case and raise the ram to its top position. Where the die was touching the shellholder before, there will be a significant gap now.

Lower the ram just enough to take the pressure off and screw teh die down 1/8 turn and then raise the ram again and see how much of the gap was taken up.

Do this until your cases fit in your chamber. If you reach the absolute bottom of the sizing length, take the die to your local gunsmith or machinest and have 0.020" cut off the base of the die.

I highly recommend doing this in a Lathe to insure a square cut.

0.020" should not remove the bevel at the mouth of the sizing die but be sure that if it does or there is a sharp edge anywhere that it is polished smooth before using.

From the sounds of your set up this will probably not be needed. Be sure to watch and make sure you only size what you need. We do not want to open up the headspace on the case and get case stretching problems.

Turn it down 1/8 turn, size and chamber, follow until the case just chambers and then generally another 1/8" turn will have you set up right for big game factory rifles.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen (50)
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2004, 03:59 PM
LB LB is offline
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Re: Little help please

Yeah, all true. Another thing, described in RCBS instructions that come with every set of FL dies is to screw the die in until it touches the shell plate, at the top of the stroke. Then lower the ram and screw the die in another third of a revolution, forget exactly how much? But leaving the lock ring loose, cam the ram back up until the shell plate toggles over against the base of the die. Then tighten the lock nut. This helps alignment between the shell plate and the die body. Kind of "loads" the press, same as it does during sizing. Sounds more complicated than it is. In any case, you should be able to feel the bump on the shoulder; best described as a little resistance felt on the handle as the ram toggles over.

My guess(?) is that you have a procedural error, and probably don't need any die modifications.

Good hunting. LB
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2004, 03:01 PM
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Re: Little help please

Well I thought I understood well enough to get it to work. The cases are still not chambering into the gun. The cases started out new and have only been fired once. We have had problems like this before, but usually only occured with Winchester rifles. I still dont see how the case that was fired out of that dang gun will not go back into the same gun. I spent well over an hour messing with the dies and shellholder all to no avail. I'll tell you all what I did step by step. First I screwed in the FL die. I then put the handle all the way down, so that the shellholder would be all the way to the top. I then proceeded to screw it down 1/2 turn more so that the shell holder was hitting rather hard on the base of the die. I then lubed a case and ran it through. It did not fit. I repeated the process untill I screwed the die almost all the way down except for 2 threeads. The case still did not fit. Am I still doing something wrong here or what? When the case is in the die, there is a little space between the shellholder and die but I dont feel any resistance really. And that was throughout the whole process. That must be why its not resizing. But the damn handle just stops, it dont wanna go any farther. I feel like im going to break the bench. I'm not quite sure I understand what the "camming" part means either. Can someone please explain maybe in layman terms what to do? I mean, I thought I read Fiftydriver and jb1000br directions quite well and understood them, but I guess not cause the damn cases still wont fit. I mean what the hell, how hard can it be to size a damn case anyways, well must be pretty hard if its me, or thats just my luck. But, I really need to get it figured out because my dad wants to take it to a gunsmith and I told him thats not the problem.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2004, 03:11 PM
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Re: Little help please

camming:

the shellholder should hit the base of the die before it is at the bottom of the stroke--after it hits the die, keep pushing of the handle and it will CAM over (pushing even harder against the bottom of the die) and this removes the play/flex from the system.

clear as mud.

so even though you are CAMMING over on the die, the case still doesnt completely enter the die when sizing?

when FL sizing there should be no gap between the shellholder and die (with, or without the case involved.

sounds like to case is physically too hard for your press to push the shoulder back--hence the gap even though it cams with no case present.

im confuzzled [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

JB
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