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I FELT bad...

 
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  #1  
Old 01-07-2003, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 268
I FELT bad...

I love Ultra Longrange hunting. I showed many pictures of benchrest rifles at Williamsport matches to my father in-law, my brother, my dad and few good hunters.
I explained to them that it is essential to have the proper equipment to shoot long range. They however don't like the idea to shoot over 200 yards and I respect that.

I thought I gave good information to my father in-law about long range and use proper equipment and also shoot a lot of practice. He owns Rem pump action. He loves it because it gives him quicker chance to shoot an animal if miss or an injury animal starts to run.
---------------------------------------

He went to Quebec to hunt caribou. Two caribou for one tag allowed in Quebec. He was driving and saw several group of caribou. There were few trees in this terrian. He got out of the truck and he simply stand up near the ditch and fire, miss, fire again, miss then he decided to hold up the crosshair somewhere above the caribou's back. Then fire, finally hit the caribou but in a horrible shot placement. The bullet hit the rear leg, below the knee. The caribou fell down but still alive so he kept firing and finally got on the neck but still alive so he walked toward to the caribou and kill it at close range.

I couldn't believe when he told me. I said to him how far was he shooting? He has no idea because the bullet kept dropping below the caribou. I said again, how far? He thought probably 400 yards. I wasn't pleased with him at all, off-hand and guessing the aim at it?

I FELT bad about it. I thought I explained to him about it. He understood clearly but neglected?

How can I help someone who may be interested in long range? Go to 1000 yards match and watch? I videod Darryl Cassel shooting at Williamsport last summer and I learned a lot from him and his outstanding skills. I will go to Williamsport 1000 yards again this year and learn more from Darryl Cassel and few other 1000 yards shooters.

I'm still disappointed with my father in-law. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] for reckless shooting.

Whew... I'm fine now.

Thanks for reading this.
-Denny
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2003, 02:09 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,369
Re: I FELT bad...

I don't believe a person (normal everyday person) can comprehend and use long range shooting without some actual experience. Once the idea that the scope is adjusted in the field, trajectories are repeatable and distance must be known BEFORE the shot are understood there is some hope that the person will take off and understand a little. Theory alone does not seem to work well, practical experience is the only way I've every seen it work.

A day trip to a large field with 6 milk jugs as targets should get the minimal basics
out of the way. 100 yards/meter zero, 200 yards/meters point-blank 300, 400, 500 and 600 scope adjustment adjust. 30-06/308 class rifle trajectory use 0, 2, 4.5, 7.5, 11 and 14.5 as starters for data through 600 YARDS (add some for meters), should get you close enough to impress anyone on the first shot.

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: Dave King ]
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  #3  
Old 01-07-2003, 02:30 PM
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Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: I FELT bad...

Practice, Practice, Practice is the word for your father In law. Try the jugs like Dave King has ponted out.


later
DC
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Darryl Cassel
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  #4  
Old 01-07-2003, 02:36 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,459
Re: I FELT bad...

Unfortunately, an all too familiar story which has become more popular with the advent of super duper magnum cartridges launched from barrels with fluted barrels.

The only cure is to show people what we do and show them how to do it correctly. Most will shy away because they can't conceive what we do is even possible (the flat earth crowd). The others might even become "converted".

Keep up the good fight and enjoy our sport...

Jerry
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  #5  
Old 01-07-2003, 05:01 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: I FELT bad...

I think it starts in the head with how people think first. Some think they have enough ammo to get the animal down and the animal is going to die anyway so it doesn't much matter how it's done, so long as it is done.

Chances are they will hit it and eventually kill it, so they step out beyond the range have practiced at and START learning trajectory THEN. Some think the long shots are rare and the need to practice at LR are then just a waste of time and ammo.

There has to be a motivational force within them to want to learn more. That can be missing on a shot at a farther distance, missing a oportunity because the animal was farther away than they new they could make hits at, watching someone else kill an animal at a longer range when the new they could not make the same shot accuratly, watching someone else miss over and over again at longer range shots, an animal that gets away because of a badly misplaced shot, stuff like this. If you can motivate someone with something like this that will hit home with THEM, only then they will start to listen.

What motivated me:

- I watched two guy try to shoot a 60"+ bull moose at a LATER ranged 750 yards with 2 300wm both emptying their belts of ammo in the process. How's about 20+ rounds of ammo spent with only one hit on him, which they both denied completely so they didn't have to wade the swamp to track him! I saw the hit in my binos easily as they both took turns blasting! I only had a 44mag pistol to hunt close range with that year so I spotted a they insisted on trying to take him down.

Afterward an arguement ensued about the hit really taking place and I left alone to track him myself as they went back to camp to get drunk! I've never hunted with them again... I found the trail and never found blood or the moose for over 1/2 mile until I lost the trail. The moose WAS hit, that I'm sure of, I saw him standing then fall to his knees and then get up and run! I'm also SURE I'm not the only one that saw it too!

From then on I was into the books looking at what the actual drop was at that range finding this would not be that difficult of shot if practiced and range was certain. I was on a quest after that. Within two years I had killed two moose at 350yds with the new 338wm and had charts to 600yds for my hunting area. I could hit a kill zone at that distance with a half ass rest consistantly too.

I met DC, Len and many others on Hunt America.com shortly after this and found I was not the only one killing beyond the typical 200yd range or so, much to my surprise. Len started the site here soon after this and the learning curve steepened rapidly. I would not be at the level I am today without these guys help, that's a fact. Fate had it I hooked up with them at just the right time.

Sorry for the long post.

Somewhere in there was something to do with the initial motivation. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] That's what did it for me.

Good luck on the father in law. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Brent Moffitt
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2003, 09:06 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 268
Re: I FELT bad...

I totally agree with you guys. My father in-law needs a lot of practice, I mean LOTS but he is kind of "a box of bullets a year hunter". Therefore he should limit his shooting range, not do his best to hit an animal at distance range.

I thought "SEEING IS BELIEVING" when I showed him the pictures and a videotape of Williamsport match. Anyway, I'll gonna show him my ULR rifle,(don't have it right now, it is in the project, 338 Tomahawk with 38"-40" barrel). I hope it will be done by this summer and he will get the feel of it.

I don't wanna hear him or anyone else saying, "my rifle is better than yours". I know it is not because my rifle will be a custom made and is built for accuracy.

I hope he didn't spoil our sport...

-Denny
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2003, 11:02 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Re: I FELT bad...

Denny, with regard to your concern about "spoiling our sport".....
I don't consider a hunter who does what your father-in-law did to be a long range hunter.

Just a careless hunter.

I have said in a previous post. (To steal and modify a phrase from forest gump)
Long range is as long range does!

I consider my self a long range hunter and I shoot within 500 yards......and thats with virtually no wind.....300 with wind. I am confident I can get a clean kill at that range. Most hunter crap there pants past 200.

DC and others can hit at ranges way beyond that.

My theory.......what I can hit on paper is a lot farther than what I can hit in the field.
I'll practice out way past my hunting ranges so when I shoot at 400 there is no question.
I do this with my bow, rifle, shotgun, whatever. That is what works for me.

I wish I lived near a 1000 yard range so I could practice those extreme ranges.

Anyway.....don't let your father in law get you down......the woods and fields are full of people who "shoot first and ask questions later".

Biggest a-hole hunter line....
"hold 1 inch over for every hundred yards"
....i'm sure that works great with those 30-30 lever actions!


[img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
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