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Common Question

 
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  #50  
Old 07-30-2005, 12:12 PM
 
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Re: Common Question

BuffaloBob, my mention of the .308 was in response to your point that inorder to shoot far you need a high speed barrel burner. I mentioned that round to demonstrate that is simply not true.

As far as my last post. I have to say the d-a is COMPLETELY off base. His comparison between the 308 and 257 was not an accurate comparison. It left out caliber diameter, Bullet weights, and their effects at long range.

Some statements are opinions and some are facts. Most are a little of each. I'm sure many guys are happy with the Weatherby's. My point here is not to insult weatherby over all. Just as LB put it, the weatherby "Mystique".

In another post a guy just bought a 30-378 Weatherby. Talk about a barrel burner! He said he bought is because his friend is a "wealthy guy" who owns a gun store and thats what he hunts with. This guy told him that any animal he has ever shot has never gone more than 20 feet.
First of all, I never understood what the being wealthy had to do with it. Second, I posted in reply that bullet selection has a lot to do with it. I personally do not see the value in Weatherby rifles. Especially when compared to something like the Sendero.
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  #51  
Old 07-30-2005, 01:44 PM
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Re: Common Question

John M

With respect to your point on what actually kills, I tend to agree that bullet diameter is a very important component of the equation and is perhaps more important than bullet speed. I do not believe that energy is the correct descritpion of what kills but it is what most people understand and can relate to and can be used for comparison. And I believe that DA's conclusion is right and he undoubtably has enough knowledge to know about bullet diameter. However, Paulinus will need to practice just like all of the rest of us before he takes a shot at that range and he may make a mistake just like all of the rest of us. If we had a contest on which of us has done the stupidest thing it would be one long thread.

The reason the 338s are the undisputed king of super long range shooting is they make a big hole with a big bullet (this will probably start another argument). My feeling on speed is twofold one it helps with range error and wind and two -momentum is what is needed to break bones (impact or impulse analysis) and speed (velocity)is part of the equation in momentum analysis (of course the bullet has to withstand the impact) and mass is the other. When one is shooting the smaller calibers one must be very comfortable with one's ability to shoot around the shoulder bones or else one must have a gun capable of breaking them at the range of the shot. I think the 257Wby will do that with a nice heavy bullet. Will a 7Mag do it better, Oh yes, there will be exactly the hole you describe.


I fully agree with you on thin barrels, before I found this forum I was completely set on having a 30-378 built on a Neiska action and a heavy Lilja barrel and and A5 stock. I still may, but I am very hopeful that Kirby will succeed with his 7mm. I credit Weatherby for setting a very high bar as far a cartridge case capacity but both of my guns are on non-weatherby actions. The thin barrels will shoot OK but the barrel is not a place to save weight.

Any way, I have cleaned the guns a little and now I got to mow the yard, then I will clean the guns some more. Then I guess I will fool with my brass and watch the race. The good news seems to be that I have finally got enough powder behind the 160 Accubond that the carbon fouling is way way down in that gun and it is mostly copper fouling now. We will see if the primer pockets are still good? The bad news is I got to re-shim the scope.

I am going to post this but I might come back and edit it later.
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  #52  
Old 07-30-2005, 04:00 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: Common Question

john m
[ QUOTE ]
the 308 win 165 balistic tip, the 257 weatherby 110 accubond

[/ QUOTE ] i am sorry i did not spell it out for you , however i assumed you knew a little about ammo lingo. the 308 is a .308 diameter 165 grain bullet, the 257 weatherby is a .257 diameter 110 grain bullet. I do however belive that s.d (Sectional Density)is a better comparison than bullet diameter. I could have compared the 308 with a 110 v max to the 257 weatherby, it (the 308 has a larger frontal area, but lower s.d) would not have made you happy either.
And yes the 308 is .051 thousands bigger, but when an animal is hit, i dont think (no scientific evidence yet, but I am sure some one is working on it) the animal says holy shiit that was a 30 cal bullet.

And yes i would prefer the 257 wtby over the 308. I do not think frontal area is a key concern for deer under 300 pounds. yes I do have close buddies that go to canada every year that kill deer up to 330 pounds with a 257 weatherby and a barnes x bullet.
And yes I am building a 257 stw as my primary deer gun. when i have an assortment of 30 cal sitting in a safe. three of which are mystical weatherbys that shoot sub moa, two 300 wins, and a 300 rum.

so for the morale of the story shoot what you want,and maybe you can find some happiness; and i will shoot what i want and know what works.

<font color="red"> again; just my final two cents worth on this </font>
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  #53  
Old 07-30-2005, 05:23 PM
LB LB is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upland, CA
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Re: Common Question

Bufalo Bob,

I'm not too sure if you are refering to me, or not? If you are, to be perfectly clear, I am not attempting to insult anybody. I am going to state my opinion, without sugarcoating it. As an adult, I am sure that anyone old enough to choose and purchase a firearm is also mature enough to understand, and accept that when he asks for opinion, he may not get total agreement. Most people can deal with a difference of opinion without considering it as insult.

Good hunting. LB
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  #54  
Old 07-30-2005, 06:24 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Common Question

d-a, once again you have made a statement out of context. I never said a 257 weatherby wouldn't kill a 300 lb deer. You make no mention of distance.

Lets clarify the points of discussion in proper context. We are talking about the 257 wby vs. the .308 at 600 yards. The 308 is a way better choice for that distance. I'm not saying it wont work, just that is not the better choice. And, it not even a good choice for that distance.'

Now, you are building a 257 wildcat that is a different story than a 257 wby off-the-shelf rifle.

Buffalo Bob, I agree about building a rifle in a wby caliber vs. buying a factory wby. If you were going to get one that is. I have a 338 lapua with a #7 lilja. I couldn't imagine a wimpy little barrel on that thing. I have a #5 krieger on my 7stw and thats as small a barrel as I would ever go.
I personally like heavy longarms. I can control recoil without a brake (hate brakes) which in the end means better accuracy. I have a Ithaca deerslayer III shotgun that I bought a few years back. They only made them for a short while because they weigh 10 3/4 pounds without a scope.

I also agree that you need enough speed. But I want just as much as I need. I'd take my lapua over a 30-378 anyday.

Good Hunting
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  #55  
Old 07-31-2005, 07:52 PM
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Re: Common Question

Paulinus

If you will send me an email, I will send you an impact analysis of the 257 Wby at 600 yds using conservation of momentum theory and some hard data that is known to be true and verified. You will be able to check my calculations relatively easy. There is not much point in posting it and continuing the argument on this forum. By undergraduate training I am a physicist but by later training and profession I am an engineer.

You will not need to be a physicist to check my work and it will bring a smile to your face.
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  #56  
Old 07-31-2005, 09:35 PM
 
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Re: Common Question

BuffaloBob, Thats pretty cool that you are a physicist and engineer.

I have a PHD in Applied Mathmatics from MIT.

Too bad your not going to post that, I'd like to see it.
By the way, do you have any theories about wind drift at that distance?
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