Buffalo Bob, ever hear of a .308?
They'll shoot far. They can easily take a deer at 600 yards.
Would you call them barrel burners?
Also, if you have a quality match grade barrel of good heavy contour, it will last longer than one of those "weatherby anarexia barrels. (I called them "pencil" barrels in another post and wanted to stay original) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
Did you know that Krieger made them specify that the barrels are Krieger "Creiterion". They did not want weatherby to make people think that they were getting a custom Krieger barrel. You have to pay extra for that.
You also have to pay extra to have the action trued???
1.5" groups at 100 yards! My Ithaca deerslayer shotgun does that.
Weatherby likes to make people think that if you buy one of their rifles you can immediately shoot big game out to 500 yards just by following their drop chart because they are so fast and powerful.
Lighter, thin barreled, ultra high velocity rifles will have shorter barrel life and shoot less accurate than a heavier rifle with a larger contour barrel using heavier bullets.
Can anyone honestly say that the weatherby is a better rifle than a Sendero for a lot less money?
you mention the 308 is capable of taking a deer at 600 yards. a little time with my pesja balistics; this is what i got comparing "custom ammo"
the 257 weatherby 110 accubond takes 6.9moa from 200 yards, has a s.d .238 @ 3400 fps(nosler custom ammo) @ 600 yrds has 1436 ft lbs of energy
the 308 win 165 balistic tip takes 11.7moa from 200 yards, has a s.d .248 @ 2650(Black hills gold) @ 600 has 1324 ft lbs of energy.
<font color="red"> had he asked about a 308, most every one would have given him a thumbs up. </font>
the fact is the 257 wtby gets there flatter, hits harder than the 308. clearly 1400+ foot pounds of energy is enough to dispatch a deer.
Again just my 2 cents worth <font color="red"> </font>
I am afraid this will only fuel the discussion, but below is a quote from Chuck Hawks who was an extensive website devoted to firearms.
"With modern controlled expansion bullets the .257 Weatherby Magnum takes its place alongside the .264 Winchester Magnum, 6.5x68S, and .270 WSM (as well as its .270 and 7mm Weatherby sister cartridges), as one of the world's premier long range big game calibers. For hunting really large big game animals the 6.5mm and .270 Magnums ultimately have the advantage due to their ability to handle heavier bullets of significantly greater sectional density. But for medium to medium-large big game (up to about 500 pounds) the .257 Weatherby Magnum may be the best long range cartridge of them all."
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( or at least Lerch doesn't care if he burns out BJ's barrel)
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Thank goodness he just bought that 25-06. I was getting tired of doing all the work and him getting the glory [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. I guess I'll have to show him how to shoot that POS if he ever gets it broken in and a load worked up for it.
d-a, at 600 yards, do you want to hit a large mulie or whitetail with a 110 grain bullet or a 165 grain bullet?
Don't you think it matters that the diameter of the .308 bullet is 20% larger than the .257?
Which will be more accurate at 600 yards?
Your methodology could make a case for a even smaller calibers.
At long range you want to anchor the animal. Like LB said earlier, "...the fact that it will work is beside the point..."
If I hit a deer with a 17HRM right thru the heart, will it live? No.
Does that mean I should do it?
I'll take a .308 with a 168 match king and you take a .257 with any bullet you want and you can help me field dress my deer and put him on my truck.
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But for medium to medium-large big game (up to about 500 pounds) the .257 Weatherby Magnum may be the best long range cartridge of them all."
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I don't know who this Guru is, that wrote the above statement, but it amounts to nothing more than a personal opinion by someone that has swallowed the Weatherby mystique. If he's a writer, be advised; as experts, they have the least legitimacy, on the planet.
Sorry for beating a dead horse. It's a waste of time, but the real purpose of these discusions is to prevent us from rolling in the dirt on the street corner, while exchanging points of view. Calibers will cause more heated debate than any other subject; it will never change. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Good hunting. LB
PS I'd like to be more optimistic, but my guess is that $1000 worth of factory ammo will render your barrel, toast.
What I know about the 308 is that it was my sniper that set the Americal Division record that day in June 1970 or 71 (memory is not always real good) with a national match M-14 and lake city match ammo. I have serched and searched the internet to verify that the shot he made is still the record but have never been able to confirm it. You have never ever seen me say anything bad about the 308. I have simply seen to many fantastic shots by some of the worlds best and I was the man standing there with the little black bar on my collar saying shoot or don't shoot.
To me the object of the forum is to share advice, information and help. Not to see how many times you can insult a persons choice of guns. Sometimes the information we have at our disposal conflicts with other peoples information. The most recent example is in Ian's thread where hydrostatic shock dose not work for me but Joe Boyd sneezes and the deer dies of fright. There are witness to all events so we are reasonably sure all events are true. But they still conflict.
I have a nice little remington 700 where everything is factory and I spent all day yesterday shooting it and as usual the gun did everything you could ask for in a 17 Rem caliber. The two Mark V's I have had experience with were sub MOA guns out of the box with factory ammo. Ruger #1's are notoriuosly finicky and are a challenge sometimes but they are so much fun to shoot that the challenge is just part of the experience. There are a lot of people here who shoot different brands and types of guns. I have never owned a Savage and a year ago would have said that I never would but so many people talk about how good they shoot that it simply must be true. I see no point in delibrately insulting one brand of gun over another.
When I posted the data on my 240 Wby at 600 yds, I had just run the numbers on the 257 Wby (DA has just posted them) and I found it amusing how much energy was out there for the 257 Wby compared to the 240 Wby. And yes I would pull the trigger at 600 yds with the 240 Wby if I had been practicing and had a decent shot, the right bullet, etc, etc. The gun was doing well at 500yds yesterday and I finally got it dialed in at 1000yds.
Now then let me go out to talk about things I don't know anything about. The guy who sold me the F N action that I used to build the 240 WBy had a Ackly 228 that he used for hunting mule deer and the guy had some humongous racks on the wall. The guy had "peculiar" hunting techniques that worked for him. My underestanding of the 228 Ackly is that it was designed specifically to get around the restriction on 224 calibers for deer hunting. And once we get the 224 caliber deer hunters involved in this discussion we will see some strange numbers come up on what it takes to kill a deer ( I have tried that too and it does work but is not my idea of fun and fun is why I hunt).
The point of my last post was to demonstarate the differency between helping a person and insulting a person.
The purpose of this post is the same. There is a difference between insults and help. 25 years ago when I started doing this stuff there was no one to help me and I made a lot of mistakes. I still make mistakes and I expect I will continue to make mistakes. A guy gave me some advice on wind at the range yesterday and I thought he was crazy but I begin noticing as I walked from the bench out to the 1000yd targets that he was right. The flags showed a right to left wind but the wind was actually funneling straight downrange. Once I understood his help and advice things begin to go well at 1000yds. That is what the forum is about to me.