Mike Rock told me the same thing when I was there working on my .243. He also provided me with a sample kit of the Smooth Coat and BP 2000 that I just finished using to break the gun in. I followed the the instruction that came with the kit and I have to say it was a whole lot easier than the shoot 1 clean method that I used on my previous guns. I don't think the barrel broke in using fewer rounds, I was just able to get those rounds down the tube in much less time with much less work.
Two weeks ago I ran 21 shots through the barrel while doing some pressure testing, then yesterday tried out some loads for groups. Using RE 22 with 105gr Amaxes I managed .495 with 44.2 grs. .399 with 44.4, grs and .514 with 44.6 grs. I shot some other grops at lower charges but they weren't as nice.
Point I'm trying to make is with only 50 rounds down the barrel and groups like those I'd have to say the Sentry solutions products sure didn't hurt anything and definitly made the break in job easier.
Ignorance can be treated with education, sadly there is no cure for stupidity.
Jeff in Florida...Wow!! That is a new one on me for sure! I'm not sure what Sako does to their Stainless Steel barrels as far as lapping or not lapping? I'm going to assume they don't do any barrel lapping on their factory hunting rifles. I wonder if this BP 2000 & Smooth Coat stuff can be bought along with instructions to do-it-yourself people?? Maybe the Tubb Fire Lapping kit would be a starting point?? I've seen somewhere people using a graphite based product to treat their barrels with...will this do the same thing as the Moly? Thanks for that info on the subject..All though, now I don't know what to do as to breaking in the barrel. I guess I'll hope to get enough responce on this sugject to come-up with a process that hopefuly will do more good than harm.
fourinone and others
Here is the link to the website for Smoothcoat and BP 2000, if nothing else it's interesting reading.Sentry Solutions ltd.
This links to the barrel treatment page barrel treatment
Ignorance can be treated with education, sadly there is no cure for stupidity.
Thanks Winmagman, for the links for these products mentioned. I think I may give this a try. I'm still thinking about the fire lapping to do first. I don't have reloading equipment and will have to see if a freind will let me reload with his equipment at least long enough to load some of the fire lapping rounds. Does any one know if the bullet depth matters in the Tubb fire lapping kit or is somewhere near factory ammo OAL ok?? And the type of powder to use fire lapping a 7mm08...does it matter?? Thanks: John
Here is a thread written by Gale McMillan on barrel break-in. His credentials spoke for themselves.
The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business. He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap? His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean every 7 or 8 rounds. If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in.
No flame here Mr. Mac. When my personal history is comparable to yours, I may throw rocks - not until then though.
I have done this on factory barrels and had good results. I usually use JB compound for the first few shots and through cleaning after range sessions. The aggressive use of JB seems to smooth things up pretty quickly. (duh) I do not have a custom barrel on any of my rifles. (yet)
Would you still hold that the procedure is unneeded on factory barrels?
I answered this and lost it on transfer so will shorten this one and try to get my point across in fewer words. When some one uses JB on one of my rifles I void the warrantee! For two reasons. ! It dimensionally alters the barrel dimensions and not evenly and the second reason is the barrel maker laps the barrel with a grit of lapping compound that is most effective in preventing metal fouling. Then a customer polishes that finish away with JB.
I wouldn't be as apposed to it if it were applied on a lead lap and very sparingly. It is very obvious when you look at a barrel with a bore scopes all the sharp edges are worn off the rifling. if it has JB used on it on a regular basis. As you know ,it is an abrasive of about 1000 grit. As for using it on factory barrels I will say that while it is difficult to hurt a production barrel but the thing that hurts a match barrel will do the same to a factory barrel
I understand what you are saying about JB compound, but, for example, I have a rifle in .375x338 Mag that copper fouls so badly that even JB bore paste doesn't do it. Even the stronger solvents don't seem to phase the stuff.
I think I have more of this article somewhere for anyone who's interested. No flame intended I'm just looking to share what I've read.
Very little changes with respect to the barrel, it is the throat area that should be the focus of any barrel break in, and hence discussion. This is a copy of my contribution to the last LRH thread on barrel break in. I edited the following for the sake of time.
“It has been well established the chambering of a barrel leaves marks or ridges if you will, that are transverse to the passage of the bullet. These ridges, especially early in the barrels life will scrape a small amount of copper from the bullet as it passes over them. Just after the bullet passes over these grooves, if we were able to take a high speed picture of them, we would see copper in the valleys of these grooves, much like what would happen if you scraped a bullet over a file. But the copper does not stay there long. As the temperature and pressure rise in the throat area (from the burning powder) the copper vaporizes and is carried down the barrel and deposited.
The very tips of the ridges are now subjected to heat that raises the temperature to the point the metal becomes relatively soft. As the burning powder scrapes across these superheated ridges it removes the very top of them. With the next round there is slightly less of a ridge present and hence less copper and steel is removed. Sharp pointed ridges with narrow bases, from a sharp reamer tend to be worn down quickly. Rounded, broad based ridges from a dull reamer wear more slowly and produce more copper fouling.
You can demonstrate this quite well with an old file. Take a torch and play it across the teeth. You can very quickly get the teeth to the melting point while the backbone remains relatively cool.
At least in my mind this explains why chambers made with sharp reamers take few rounds to break in and deposit little copper in the process. Also that (some) factory barrels may require many more rounds to break in.”
John M. urged me to talk with Krieger on the phone as they recommend a relatively common break in proceedure (for their barrels) on their web site and he got a somewhat different opinion on the phone. I called Krieger and their answer to my questions were:
1. “...barrel break in is not a fallacy”
2. “...barrels chambered with sharp reamers will take very little break in. Maybe none at all. Chamber (throats) cut with dull reamers can take considerably longer to break in. If the barrel is shooting good and deposits little copper, it is broke in.”
I have the highest respect for Mr. Allens’ opinions. I believe he said it best. “The most important thing is that you actually break the barrel in”