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Accuracy ?

 
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  #1  
Old 07-05-2006, 10:06 AM
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Accuracy ?

This is a general question on when to suspect something OTHER than the load.

I guess my question is how inaccurate a stable bullet can be when fired from a rifle that is reasonably accurate. At some point the bedding, the scope, the scope rings and bases should become suspect.

If you were to place a barreled action in a solid machine rest, and ignoring POA how large of a spread could you get, even from a shot out barrel, assuming that the bullet is stable when fired? Could it shoot larger than 6 inches @ 100 yards? 12" ? OR is there no limit?

thanks,

edge.
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2006, 11:10 AM
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Re: Accuracy ?

I don't think there is any limit.

If a rifle is shooting 6" groups at 100 yards, it's probably not the load. Probably something loose, extremely poor bedding, or the barrel is shot out. Or maybe, just maybe, you are using long heavy bullets which cannot be stabilized well.

Do you have any specifics?
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2006, 06:54 AM
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Re: Accuracy ?

[ QUOTE ]
SNIP

Do you have any specifics?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a new rifle that you put a scope on and take it to the range to sight in and it shoots say a 6 inch group. Obviously there are many things that COULD cause this, bedding, bad scope, bad rings, crown,etc.

My question is if the holes are perfectly round @ 100 yards, then the bullets are stable, so can the cartridges ( bullets, powder & powder weight, case, headspace, etc be eliminated from this accuracy problem because it is so bad. IF the load can be eliminated immediately then there would be no need to chase different powders,bullets, AOL, etc, until the REAL problem were found.

In a nutshell I was hoping that if you fire 5 shots and they are sprayed at the target, you go home and tear the rifle apart since it is a mechanical problem and not a load problem, but if there is no limit on "inaccuracies" then this does not eliminate the load.

edge.
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:13 AM
 
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Re: Accuracy ?

[ QUOTE ]
In a nutshell I was hoping that if you fire 5 shots and they are sprayed at the target, you go home and tear the rifle apart since it is a mechanical problem and not a load problem, but if there is no limit on "inaccuracies" then this does not eliminate the load.

edge.


[/ QUOTE ]

A bad Load should just give vertical dispersion - which you can verify with a Chronograph. If it's spraying, I'd guess it must be a mechanical problem.

When Kirby sent me my fast twist 300 APS/Lilja/RUM it shot slightly over 1/2 MOA @ 100 yards with my first load (fire forming brass). As each load went up in gr. of IMR 4350, the groups opened up. The last group showed no signs of pressure but the group size was over 8" at only 100 yards (all over the paper, not vertical dispersion). I didn't have my chrono that day. I was about to cry. Latter Kirby helped me figure out my scope rail was loose. The gun is a real tack driver now.
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2006, 09:50 AM
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Re: Accuracy ?

[ QUOTE ]
A bad Load should just give vertical dispersion - which you can verify with a Chronograph. If it's spraying, I'd guess it must be a mechanical problem.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree. A bad load may have very crooked bullets shot in an oversize bore which often produces as much horizontal spread as vertical spread. Even in a tight bore, crooked bullets will have quite a horizontal spread 'cause they leave the muzzle in all directions relative to its axis.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2006, 08:11 PM
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Re: Accuracy ?

Edge,

give us as much detail about the gun and your loads as you can. Indy asked for more specifics and you answered: If you have a new rifle that you put a scope on and take it to the range to sight in and it shoots say a 6 inch group. Obviously there are many things that COULD cause this, bedding, bad scope, bad rings, crown,etc.

My question is if the holes are perfectly round @ 100 yards, then the bullets are stable, so can the cartridges ( bullets, powder & powder weight, case, headspace, etc be eliminated from this accuracy problem because it is so bad. IF the load can be eliminated immediately then there would be no need to chase different powders,bullets, AOL, etc, until the REAL problem were found.

In a nutshell I was hoping that if you fire 5 shots and they are sprayed at the target, you go home and tear the rifle apart since it is a mechanical problem and not a load problem, but if there is no limit on "inaccuracies" then this does not eliminate the load. I think indy was inquiring about the gun & ammo??

I Agree with Bart B. I have experienced loads that group vertical as much as horizontal. Could you give more spec's on gun, bullets, trigger pull etc... Are the loads you're shooting reloads or factory. Have you checked rifle twist for the right bullet weight? Come on Edge spit it out so we can help you.. Oh, one more thing -- were you letting the barrel cool during sight~in? I've see it happen toooo many times when a individual goes to the range and bangs away shot after shot ends up confused why his gun's not gouping... Boy I know you could fry an egg on that barrel.

Spino
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  #7  
Old 07-12-2006, 09:47 PM
 
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Re: Accuracy ?

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. A bad load may have very crooked bullets shot in an oversize bore which often produces as much horizontal spread as vertical spread. Even in a tight bore, crooked bullets will have quite a horizontal spread 'cause they leave the muzzle in all directions relative to its axis.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. I was assuming he used good components (and had experience with them in another firearm) - perhaps bad assumptions. It could also be flinching, hurricane winds, the flying spaghetti monster or a zillion progressively less likely factors - but given the limited details my guess would be mechanical problem. (BB (Bad Bullets) is also a mechanical problem)

I have an old factory 670 win - 30-06 that shoots 1.5 MOA reliably when cold. Two shot limit (before letting it cool down) or it sprays. The Chrono shows consistent velocity. Any guess on the ot-six's problem? (My top guess is no floating, no bedding).
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