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300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

 
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2003, 09:00 AM
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Re: 300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

As an add on here.I also have a heavy gun in 300wsm cut with the same reamer.(LightGun)28" Hart 11 twist barrel)...Heavy gun wears an 35" 9twist Kreiger barrel...I picked up the heavy gun on Friday night before a match.No time to shoot it.Loaded 20 of my light gun rounds...My light gun throat was cut long with a c.o.l. of 3.190.....My heavy gun is cut to 2.990....Took it to Williamsport and won the relay for group WITH THE FIRST 10 rounds out of the gun.I did shoot 7 sighters.The next match Bald Eagle 713 shot a 6.8 inch 99 score with it..Those guns should'nt shoot the same load.Should they???? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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  #16  
Old 10-16-2003, 09:25 AM
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Re: 300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

But, But, But, Boyd

Those guns (especially Big Ugly) don't like the "windy conditions" when only pushing the 210 Gr bullets at 2800 FPS. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] which seems to be the accuracy range.

At 1000 yards a little 6.5 at 2950 to 3000 FPS will nail that 300 WSM in the wind, won't they now?????? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

That's why I didn't shoot my 300 WSM during that last match Boyd.

As an add on here---As for accuracy and hunting, the WSM has not been around long enough as compared to the 300 WM. Not a fair comparison yet. Real good brass is available for the 300 WM though.
As BH pointed out, the 300 WSM has a limit as per bullet choice (it seems) of the 190 to the 210 gr.
The 300 Win mag holds a bit more powder and will propel the same bullets another 100 FPS "Plus".
The 300 Win mag is very good using the 220 gr bullets which has a bit better BC.

As for a "shorter range" cartridge stricly for hunting (especially elk), the 338 Win Mag is VERY popular out west.

To reach out to further ranges, the 300 Win Mag has earned it's place in the spotlight over the years.
The 300 WSM "will be" a popular hunting round also but, I don't think it will be as popular as the 300 Win Mag is for the LR or semi LR hunter.

Just my 2 cents.
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DC [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-16-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2003, 12:10 PM
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Re: 300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

Ok .. I am very interested in this topic..mostly because I have this "bargain basement" WSM that was pieced together and just happens to shoot incredibly...

I just fired my last rounds before setting out for Mule deer in the next 3 weeks..

I am pushing a 175 gr SMK at 3000 fps and getting accuracy that is consistently in the .2's

by my exbal calculations I have 1039 ft lbs at 1132 yards. ( 50 degrees, 25% humidity, 7000 ft elevation)

In my opinion.. and it is just that...

this IS a LR Hunting cartridge.. not ultra but.. definitly LR...

I have 2058 ft.lbs at 500 yards and thats plenty for Elk... in my opinion you need about 1500 ft lbs for elk..

I still have 1541 ft. lbs at 750 yards...

that's a LR or semi lr cartridge for Elk .. No?

in everyones elses opinion does this qualify for an honest LR cartridge for #1 deer and #2 Elk???
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Old 10-16-2003, 12:13 PM
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Re: 300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

But,But,But Darryl.This is between the 300 Win and The 300wsm....Not the 6.5...And I know of only 2 300 WIN's that were shot last year.And neither did very well in the aggs.You run your 6.5's at 2950 to 3000fps.And I will run my 30 at 2800fps.You might out shoot me in the wind.But come on..How many days are that windy [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]I laid the bet on the table.Now do you have enough faith in your 6.5 at 2950 to 3000fps to take it??? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ 10-16-2003: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]
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  #19  
Old 10-16-2003, 12:20 PM
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Re: 300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

Ric,I think the wsm will make you a fine 1000 yard LR gun....If the gun shoots where you point it.You should have no trouble killing an elk at 1000 yards with it...jmo...I would take a 6.5-284 or any other small case that shoots where you point it over a big case that does'nt

[ 10-16-2003: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]
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  #20  
Old 10-16-2003, 02:48 PM
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Re: 300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

Ric
Nobody said the 300 WSM was not a good cartridge to use for longrange "Hunting".

It's just that the 300 Win Mag has proved itself in the fields for many years plus the brass quality is better for it.

The 300 Win mag will out perform the 300 WSM as per velocity by "more then" 100 feet per second which in turn gives higher foot pounds of energy further out and in ANY weight bullet. The 300 Win mag will just plain propel the heavier 30 cal bullets,(such as 220 and 240 gr) with a higher BC, better then the 300 WSM can do it.

If your using the smaller bullets, and shooting medium longrange, the WSM will work fine but, the 300 Win mag will simply do it a bit better and further, no matter what bullet you use.

I like the idea of no belt on the WSM so that advantage goes to the WSM especially in match shooting.

As for pure power, more velocity, better brass, more powder capacity, the 300 WM is the longer range cartridge and I have both of them to make that comparison.
I don't think the original poster is a longrange hunter though.

But, But, But, Boyd
I have arranged it so, you will be shooting in "all" windy relays next season so, you better get that 6.5 going before next season rolls around. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I'll still get you in the wind regardless if theres money riding on it or not.
Hate to take money from you that could be buying food for your daughters and wife. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Zoom, Zoom, Zoom-- You know what that sound is? "THE LAWN MOWER" warming up again. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Later
DC
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  #21  
Old 10-16-2003, 04:53 PM
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Re: 300 WSM ??? 338 Win Mag??? also what about the 308?

Here's the way I look at it:

Brass quality...

Sort the WSM's and get equal brass as the 300WM, problem solved. I know Boyd sorts, weighs and neck turns his brass too, so it does make his shoot better than most all of them. Wrong! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Boyd is also put tons of time and effort into load development for that finiky case design too, so he's doing better for that reason too. Wrong again! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Higher MV:

Well, higher MV is great, but as Darryl has pointed out many times concerning using SMK's for hunting, accuracy and placing the shot correctly is always the most important aspect. Snipers have relied upon the 308win for a long time, usually one shot is all they have, and is what they "count" on. Do they use super heavy for caliber bullets? Accuracy and hitting the POA is the key for them as well as the discriminating LR hunter or target shooter. High BC bullets have there place, they're just not the end all, be all. Shooting for group or score in competition is different as well, the LR hunter is after both high scores, and a tight group, all to increase his effective range.

Wind:

Wind has nothing to do with the inherant accuracy of a cartidge, period. Longer bullets with higher BC's do help in the wind, no doubt, but longer bullets require higher twist rates, which can cause accuracy issues from imbalances and uniformity in bullets etc that don't surface with the slower twists and slightly lighter bullets.

Recoil:

It is certainly a consideration and effects accuracy, as seen in light guns verses heavy guns. The smaller the recoil effect, which is a major part in the overall vertical change at the target, the more consistant it will probably be in the end. A change in your hold on a rifle, or rest you're using will or can change the vertical POI at the target just the same as a hotter load can from the recoil effect, although MV when changing the load has it's influences on the vertical POI as well.

Too many variables and too small of statistical sample yet to say if the WSM will be, or won't be more accurate than the WM is. If people think it will, more will be used and the sample will grow fast.

The 300 WSM has an increasing following for many reasons and will probably make the guys shooting 300 WM's think hard when they get beat by them, especially if it's happening over and over again and becoming the norm. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Anybody know how many guys gave up the 6.5/300 WBY for the slower 6.5/284 when it started having success, and why? Any thoughts on how this one or other comparison ringing a bell from this discussion?
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