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30-06???

 
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  #22  
Old 04-13-2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: 30-06???

I believe that all military and "weapons" talk should kindly refer itself to sniper's hide.

This is longrangeHUNTING.com

Not even the Kodiak Bear carries a firearm...as unkind as he may be, it not a war when hunting in the field...
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  #23  
Old 04-13-2009, 12:31 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Steve,

That is a very good post and very much true. That is a post I can very much respect.

Yes we will have a difference of opinion on certain subjects some of which are found here. That is not important. What is important is that this is a good thread and shares a wide variety of thoughts, opinions as well as facts.

I still stand by my opinions but my opinions also include that both cartridges offer excellent service to their user for the purposes they were designed for.
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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  #24  
Old 04-13-2009, 01:35 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo 4 View Post
If you already have a 30-06 then put a good scope on it and go shoot. A 30-06 has slightly better external ballistics then a .308. With a factory rifle you have a 50/50 chance of it shooting worth a crap so it doesn't matter which cartridge it's chambered in. And just because it shoots, say a 4" group with one load doesn't mean it won't put the next load you try into one hole. Only one way to find out.
+1, if it shoots well; Shoot it!

If you have to rebarrel it, then please do yourself a favor and choose something better than the 308. In the .30 cal world, I'd choose the 300WSM unless I needed a BIG boomer, then I'd choose the 300RUM.

Good luck,
AJ
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  #25  
Old 04-13-2009, 02:07 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughneck View Post
I believe that all military and "weapons" talk should kindly refer itself to sniper's hide.

This is longrangeHUNTING.com

Not even the Kodiak Bear carries a firearm...as unkind as he may be, it not a war when hunting in the field...
Roughneck

I aplogize if I offended you.

With all do respect, I use all my hunting rifles to kill, and by definition any instrument or tool used to kill is a weapon.

Doesn't really matter what your killing.

Then again, I'm one who refuses to try to be politicaly correct. I don't say "I took, I harvested, or I got a deer". I call a spade "a spade" and I say "I killed a deer".


Nobody should be scared to call things as they are, and whether or not a firearm is used to kill animals, people, or paper, the fact still remains that all firearms are weapons.





Michael Eichele

I'm glad you enjoyed the exchange, so did I.

And just so you know, It was never my intention to change anyones opinion on anything. You've formed your opinion on your own findings from your own experiences, and I really respect that.
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  #26  
Old 04-13-2009, 02:58 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve smith View Post
Michael Eichele

I'm glad you enjoyed the exchange, so did I.

And just so you know, It was never my intention to change anyones opinion on anything. You've formed your opinion on your own findings from your own experiences, and I really respect that.
Thank you Steve. I know sometimes I also open my mouth and insert my foot. For example, I use "inherent accuracy" way too loosely and too often when I should phrase that particular term with other more realistic terms such as "forgiving" or "easy to operate" or even "less finicky".

My thought on the 30-06 vs 308 debate also includes the fact that because the 308 and '06 are so close in performance and one is a long action and the other is a short action that if guys go with a long action they may as well go with a 300 WM or 300 Wby mag. If they want less recoil and dont want to burn as much powder, then that leaves the '06 and the 308. again one being a short action and the other being a long action and that leads us back to since they are so close the advantages of the short action overshadow the few FPS the '06 has to offer. If you need more speed than the 308, you go to a long action and again, you may as well take advantage of that long action by going alot bigger. Now that we have SAUM's and WSM's the short action lovers have much more to choose from.
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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  #27  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:34 PM
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Re: 30-06???

where did c ramrod go?
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  #28  
Old 04-16-2009, 06:01 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Well, since everyone's had a big group hug and made up, I feel much safer diving in here. Actually, there's several posters here that have all made good points. Michael is absolutely right in his comments about the 308 being inherently more accurate than the 30-06. This is true right down the line, and case capacity absolutely has a direct relationship to inherent accuracy. A 30-378 is inherently less accurate than a 300 Win mag, which is inherently less accurate than a 30-06, which is inherently less accurate than a 308. This is not to say that the bigger cartridges can't shoot, as they most certainly can. It's just a matter of them taking a bit more work, more care and effort to achieve the similar results. Somewhere around here I've got a prinout of Remington's accuracy records from their custom shop on the 40-X target rifles. Bear in mind that these records were the results of literally several hundred guns in each caliber, all otherwise identical save for chambering. There was a very direct linear correlation between case capacity and average group size over thousands of rifles. Interesting, but not necessarily a deciding factor for me. If I were to build up a LR hunting rifle, I'd want something that could deliver the goods at distance, and accuracy is just one factor in this matter.

As for the 308s adoption by the military, there were several who hit right close to the x-ring here; it had to do more wioth a shorter cartridge which allowed a shorter action and thus a more compact weapon. While you and I may see a 308 as have just a few grains less powder and a slightly smaller case than the '06, we're not loading tens of millions of rounds (literally) every day of the week. That few extra grains of powder adds up pretty quickly with numbers like this! Consider that during the height of our Vietnam involvement, Lake City was turning out roughly 21 million rounds of 5.56mm ammo every day. At that point, LC was one of 12 (as I recall) Army Ammunition Plants across the country. Yeah, it adds up fast.

Good topic, though, and a lot of intersting posts in this thread!

Kevin Thomas
Berger Bullets
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