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30-06???

 
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2009, 10:09 PM
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Re: 30-06???

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Originally Posted by RockyMtnMT View Post
So it's the cartridge that is inherently accurate not the rifle?

Steve
Dont get me wrong, it takes a quality rifle for ANY cartridge to be accurate. That said, some cartridges are more prone to accuracy than others. The 308 vs 3006 is such an example.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2009, 03:44 PM
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Re: 30-06???

rocky: both i have loaded for quite a few different cailbers and rifles.*** the .222 ; the 308 and the 300 win mag in that order;* i have found to very accurate and easy to find a good load in the factory guns i have loaded for.**** i have several rifles with kreiger barrels ; they ALL shoot 1/2 min or less. the question for ram rod is if he does not have an accurate 30-06. does he sell one and take the proceeds and rebarrel with a krieger or does he get a 308 or something else?*
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  #10  
Old 04-12-2009, 01:15 AM
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Re: 30-06???

There is an article on the front page that can explain it better than I ever could.
What's Wrong With .30 Caliber?
But to summarize:
A smaller caliber is better because you can get better form factors and higher velocity.

Just to touch on the 308 vs 30-06 issue. They both shoot the same caliber projectile. The 30-06 can be loaded heavier, which equates to being able to propel the projectile at a greater velocity. Less drop and wind drift issues.

In my opinion, there is no question the 30-06 is better.
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  #11  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:23 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Now the only difference between a 308 and 30-06 is powder capacity.

That's like saying that a 300win mag is inherently more accurate than a 300 RUM.

Both statements are inherently flawed!

More than anything, accuracy is dependant upon the quality of the barrel, squareness of the action, and the abilities of the shooter.

If you took 2 rifles of equal quality, with the same quality barrel, one in 308 and the other in 30-06, both with the same neck and throat dimensions and using the same components for ammo, the only difference between them would be velocity.

Having said all that. It is a known fact that the larger the powder charge a cartridge uses the less efficient the charge becomes. The more efficient the cartridge is the easier it is to tune a load during load developement. The less powder a cartridge uses the easier it is to get each shot (velocity) the same as the last, but the difference between the 308 and 30-06 is virtualy nil. Now when you start talking about the difference between the 308 and a 30-378Wby, you might could say something there, but at the same time, with custom actions and barrels on both the 30-378Wby probably won't be that much more difficult to find an accurate load in.

My personal opinion is that a rifles accuracy potential is made of the sum of the rifles and ammunitions components and how well they were put together, and not in the cartridges powder capacity.
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2009, 09:42 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve smith View Post
Now the only difference between a 308 and 30-06 is powder capacity.

That's like saying that a 300win mag is inherently more accurate than a 300 RUM.

Both statements are inherently flawed!

More than anything, accuracy is dependant upon the quality of the barrel, squareness of the action, and the abilities of the shooter.

If you took 2 rifles of equal quality, with the same quality barrel, one in 308 and the other in 30-06, both with the same neck and throat dimensions and using the same components for ammo, the only difference between them would be velocity.

Having said all that. It is a known fact that the larger the powder charge a cartridge uses the less efficient the charge becomes. The more efficient the cartridge is the easier it is to tune a load during load developement. The less powder a cartridge uses the easier it is to get each shot (velocity) the same as the last, but the difference between the 308 and 30-06 is virtualy nil. Now when you start talking about the difference between the 308 and a 30-378Wby, you might could say something there, but at the same time, with custom actions and barrels on both the 30-378Wby probably won't be that much more difficult to find an accurate load in.

My personal opinion is that a rifles accuracy potential is made of the sum of the rifles and ammunitions components and how well they were put together, and not in the cartridges powder capacity.

If what you say is true then why shortly after the military adopted the 308, military match shooters broke every record the 30-06 held using the newly designed 308?

Accuracy has alot to do with barrels, action squareness yes. But it doesnt stop there. Case design is involved as well. Long skinny cases are less efficient and more finicky than short stocky ones. The 30-06 is conciderably longer than the 308 in porportion to its diameter. It isnt nil.

Anybody who claims a 308 isnt any more accurate inherently than the 06 has never spend much time using both side by side.
__________________
Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (where the shot goes, how big the group is, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.

Last edited by Michael Eichele; 04-12-2009 at 09:49 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2009, 09:44 PM
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Re: 30-06???

I have a 300 savage that shoots 1.5 inch groups at 400 yds.... it's not about the cartridge.... apparently.

.308 Win. is a complete piece of junk when compared to almost any other short action 30 cal.

The ONLY reason the military adopted it is because it has soft recoil and everyone can handle it.

The only good things I can say about it personally is that it is a short action and its ballistics are very predictable. However, I can't like a rifle who's only options are a very poor ballistic coefficient or a bullet that drops like an 80 lb. anchor.

The 30.06 may be a bit overused, but it's a way more versatile gun because it will Really handle the 180-200 gr boolits.

TEX
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  #14  
Old 04-12-2009, 10:30 PM
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Re: 30-06???

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughneck View Post
I have a 300 savage that shoots 1.5 inch groups at 400 yds.... it's not about the cartridge.... apparently.

.308 Win. is a complete piece of junk when compared to almost any other short action 30 cal.

The ONLY reason the military adopted it is because it has soft recoil and everyone can handle it.

The only good things I can say about it personally is that it is a short action and its ballistics are very predictable. However, I can't like a rifle who's only options are a very poor ballistic coefficient or a bullet that drops like an 80 lb. anchor.

The 30.06 may be a bit overused, but it's a way more versatile gun because it will Really handle the 180-200 gr boolits.

TEX
The 300 savage is very close in design to the 308 win. Short and stocky. How is it not about case design?

The 300 savage has less capacity than the 308 but the 308 is an 80# anchor.

I am confused.
__________________
Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (where the shot goes, how big the group is, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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