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1000yd range-7mm vs. 338 Lapua

 
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  #8  
Old 02-14-2008, 06:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: NC
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KQguy,
I think JeffVN had a good point that needs to be clarified. The answer may make this decision easy. What style of competition are you talking about, F-Class or BR? If your thinking F-class I believe calibers larger than 8mm are illegal. IF the 338 is legal in F-Class then the recoil factor is a VERY big factor to consider as JeffVN pointed out also. So you can pretty much rule out a 338 for F-Class period, regardless of accuracy potential.

If it's BR competiton you are thinking about then yes, I would still agree with your gunsmiths advice on another caliber besides the 338. I'm the guy that BH referred to in the previous post that shot the 338 a lot. After 4 solid years of BR competiton with my 338 (keep in mind my rifle was in HG class which weighed #74 so recoil wasn't an issue) there was more than adaquate data to support the fact that until we get better quality 338 bullets it will not consistantly win in BR competition. I had my share of wins, but the better bullets available for the other calibers is the difference. I have my 338 barrel sitting in the corner waiting on Berger to finish up their 338 match bullet. Now that just might put the 338 over the top in accuracy department.

Many will argue the "advantage" of the high BC of the 300 SMK, but I've been beat more often than not firing right next to 6.5s, 7mm's, and 30's in the same conditions with lesser BC bullets while shooting my 338. It's the quality of the bullet not the BC that wins in BR. Some disagree, but the statistics show this clearly based on several years of data.
I can honestly say I won 1 match against 2 of the hottest shooters at that time because of the high BC of the 338 bullet in those 4 yrs. Both of these shooters were firing 300 Ackleys with Berger 210s and the wind was blowing at Hawks Ridge Gun Club here in NC. Both of those guys have won National championships and won at the World Open match at Williamsport using their 300 Ackleys. On this one day all 3 of us fired our 10 shot strings at the same time in a shoot-off. When I got done firing I looked up and Mike was pulling his bolt out and Alvin just fired his last shot also. I shot a 12" group and Mike and Alvin shot 18" + groups. All 3 groups were much wider than they were high. There were no other qualifiers for the shoot-off that day because the other relays had all shooters blown off paper and nobody advanced to the shoot-off. Just to give you an idea of the wind that day. That is the only time I can say the BC of that bullet won a match for me in 4yrs of competition.
There are friends of mine that still shoot the 338 in BR and they do a ton of work to the bullets. But the win percentage of a 338 over the other calibers has not gone up at all even with all of the work.

Now with that said, I'm not saying the 338 isn't accurate. It just isn't acurate enough to beat the good 6.5s and 30s in BR competition consistantly. When I'm talking about loosing a BR match I'm talking by an inch or so. I have agg'd in the 7"-8" region for (10) 10-shot targets over an entire season in any and all conditions with my 338. But the other calibers simply do better.. consistantly.

As far as the points made by Kirby and the others in regard to long range hunting up to elk size game, then the nod goes to the 338 hands down. That 300gr bullet is a big hunk of lead. I would always laugh when firing my 338 at the range during the sight-in period. It would throw hunks of sod and dirt into the air while the 6mm and 6.5s sometime are hard to see the impacts if it had rained recently. Lots of energy there at 1000yds.

So what is your priority? long range hunting with some competition... then the answer is a 338! If competition is your priority with some hunting then... 7mm or other calibers and adjsut your range according to animal size.

Steve
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2008, 11:04 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: corpus christi,tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KQguy View Post
I talked to a gunsmith the other day about building me up a rifle chambered for the 338LM,I told him it was for 1000yd.target shooting and possibly long range hunting.He insisted the 7mm would be a better choice,he said it would be superior to the 338 in accuracy,and would do just as well for hunting at 1000yd.I alway's thought the 338 would be more accurate at long ranges because it is less affected by wind drift.Also,would the 7mm have enough energy left at 1000yds. to drop large game?The more input I get the better,so I can make the right choice for what I want to do.BTW,Elk would be the biggest animal I would hunt.
KQguy
Best think i can tell you is a lot smith out there have no clue what long range hunting is are what it takes. When i started looking for a smith i talked to a lot of guys that could build a rifle. but not many really had a clue what i wanted. i could not make up my mind and i didn't like the one that wanted to build me the gun they liked. but the first time i talked to Kirby he had an answer for ever question i ask. the best thing you can do is to talk to a smith that shoots like you want your rifle to. i was wanting a smith that i could meet and see his work. but i am so glad i went with some one that builds the kind of rifle i needed and shoots the way i wanted to. give some of the guys on here a chance you won't be sorry
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  #10  
Old 02-18-2008, 12:11 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shelp View Post
KQguy,
I think JeffVN had a good point that needs to be clarified. The answer may make this decision easy. What style of competition are you talking about, F-Class or BR? If your thinking F-class I believe calibers larger than 8mm are illegal. IF the 338 is legal in F-Class then the recoil factor is a VERY big factor to consider as JeffVN pointed out also. So you can pretty much rule out a 338 for F-Class period, regardless of accuracy potential.
Steve,

Only a minor correction... the caliber limit for F-Class is .35 cal. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone firing that kind of slug in a match, though.

Given the 22# limit, including scope and sans brake... seems like about the 'max' people are willing to put up with is about a .300WSM w/ 210gr VLDs, 7mm WSM w/ 180VLDs, etc. 70-100rds in competition takes a toll on folks over a day.

On the BR side of things, though... would you go back to the .338 if/when Berger gets around to making .33 cal VLDs?

Monte

Last edited by milanuk; 02-18-2008 at 12:29 AM.
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  #11  
Old 02-18-2008, 07:41 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 733
F Class

The International F Class rules go up to 8mm calibre in the US the 35 cal was put in so the 338's could be used in clubs on existing ranges and most clubs will let a muzzle break be used ar club level.

Ok here is what I have A 7mm short mag based cartridge for 800 yards+ on targets in the same action a 6mmX55SMc for back to 800 yards and to 1200 in still conditions.

Then for hunting I have another rifle a 338WBX its a 338 Edge improved with 60 degree shoulder.

now if I was you I would have a switch barreled rifle made with a 7mm and another barrel in 338 Edge to use the same boltface.

if you were to have 1 barrel a 30 cal that will launch the 240gr matchkings for game and a 210-220 match projectile on the targets if the 240's don't group aswell. I would also have a muzzle break fitted that could be removed if needed. if you are not shooting F Class only 1000yd BR with a light gun and hunting the muzzle break would not need to be removed.

You have to tell us what target competitions you want to shoot.

Cheers Bill
Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by milanuk View Post
Steve,

Only a minor correction... the caliber limit for F-Class is .35 cal. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone firing that kind of slug in a match, though.

Given the 22# limit, including scope and sans brake... seems like about the 'max' people are willing to put up with is about a .300WSM w/ 210gr VLDs, 7mm WSM w/ 180VLDs, etc. 70-100rds in competition takes a toll on folks over a day.

On the BR side of things, though... would you go back to the .338 if/when Berger gets around to making .33 cal VLDs?

Monte
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  #12  
Old 02-18-2008, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 352
Quote:
On the BR side of things, though... would you go back to the .338 if/when Berger gets around to making .33 cal VLDs?
I have seen enough from my setup to know the accuracy potential is there. Just need a good bullet. I will be shooting a 338 when Berger gets theirs bullets in procduction and giving them a run for their money. If it's better than what I shot before, then I will be using my 338 again in BR. So the simple answer is yes.

Thanks to you and Wild Bill on the F-Class rules clarification. I've have seen some guys try the 300WSM with 210s and some haven't finished the course of fire. I couldn't imagine getting pounded by a 338 the whole afternoon lying on my belly. My 6.5x55 Ackley BR LG worked great for me when I have competed in F-Class. It's is a good fun game to where you get to learn a lot from a different perspective.



KQguy,
Wild Bill has a point in the switch barrel setup. I have multiple barrels and bolts for my guns also. Didn't even think of that angle in my first post. But he even went further to say if you keep the same bolt face for both cases and simply change caliber with the barrel itself, then it's that much cheaper and easier. Just a thought to consider. Switching barrels isn't very hard and doesn't require and lot of expensive tools. An action wrench and a barrel vise. Then some place to mount your barrel vise to a sturdy bench is all. Your gunsmith does the hard work when he sets the headspace during the chambering operation. It only takes a matter of minutes to swap out a barrel. I've done it at the range many times. You will have to put some fore-thought into your scope mount setup to be able to repeat your zero setting is all. But again that isn't difficult.

Steve

Last edited by Steve Shelp; 02-18-2008 at 09:37 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2008, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,459
If shooting in Canada

You want to review the F class rules if you plan on traveling to shoot. The big shoot in Connaught limits to 8mm and NO MAGNUMS. Our ranges are regulated such that some ranges can only shoot up to certain cals/bullets/effective distances.

Most of us never worry as shooting a big boomer in F class is fun most don't want or need.

I think the idea of a switch barrel or two rifles is a great idea. If you compete and want to do well, you need to optimize the gear for that specific task.

Rarely do LR hunting and comp specs agree.

Jerry
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2008, 08:17 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 550
+1 on the concept of a switch barrel for competition use. I have one in almost done right now - as in waiting for the reamer to come back so it can get chmbered up and delivered; I opted for a tightneck straight .284 / tightneck 7/300WSM. The .284 is for the non-magnum ranges and calm days, and the Short Mag for the windy and nasty days when my needs for a large margin for error are at their highest.

JeffVN
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