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Russian Military Laser rangefinder

 
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  #1  
Old 01-12-2002, 11:56 AM
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Location: Pennsylvania
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Russian Military Laser rangefinder

If you want a Rangefinder that will give you accurate repeatable readings in ANY weather condition from 140 meters to 20,000 meters (12 Miles) within a plus or minus of 5 meters, this is the one.

Anyone who has bought them think they are the best thing since sliced bread.


Darryl Cassel
814-546-2674 PA.

[ 10-01-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2002, 01:48 PM
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Re: Russian Military Laser rangefinder

Tried looking for the picture but not luck.
What do they look like and how much do they weight?
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2002, 09:41 AM
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Re: Russian Military Laser rangefinder

Warning on Foreign Laser RangeFinders!!

Everyone needs to understand that these are Russian military lasers that are either normally a FDA class IIIa or IIIb laser device, which means that they definitely are "not eye safe" and can permanently damage someones eye if they lase a person on purpose or by accident. The laser will reflect off any reflective surface such as glossy paint, glass, windows, and mirrors etc and continue on to its NOHD or Nominimal Occular Hazard Distance could be easily in excess of its ranging distance of 20 KM or 12 miles up, down, sideways etc. It is only terminated by going into the ground or a non-reflective object. The cheaper bushnell, nikon lasers sold in US are class I and "eye safe". If you read the package and instructions you will find that information.

Class III lasers are not normally sold commercially to the public, so if you use or buy one understand the problems and liability of doing that.

Any laser sold in the US must comply with Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, subchapter J, part 1040.10 and 1040.11. US military lasers have a specific exemption given due to their stringent testing and applicable military rules on use and training. Any foreign laser does not have this exemption and must meet FDA rules (FDA Exemption No. 76-EL-01DOD). The military exemption requires the mftrs to meet all requirements of 21 CFR 1040 if all all possible and then only if it meets national security requirements. The military handbook on lasers is MIL-HDBK-828 issues the military rules. You can find this on military websites.

The military has very stringent rules on exactly what type ranges they can be used on. the range must be swept prior to use for these reflective objects. Plus everyone is required to wear ANSI approved Laser protective eyewear. Even then we have had too many "accidents" involving laser rangefinders and designators.

So buy, sell and use these items at your own risk with the encompassing legal and financial peril. Not to stop anyone from using or whatever, but you need to understand you using an item that probably is not legal unless it has gone through the FDA approval process and definitely is not "eyesafe". Do it with a full understanding of the legal implications.

By now you know that Laser Safety is one of my jobs as a miltary base Safety Director.
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Old 09-16-2002, 09:53 AM
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Re: Russian Military Laser rangefinder

These units are bought and sold with the full understanding of the non eyesafe conditons.

NEVER has there been a problem with the civilian sector with them to date, only in wartime.

I appreciate your information and always inform anyone to the laser status.

The commercial units just DON'T do the job for us as longrange hunters/shooters. You certainly get spoiled by them (the military lasers) too.

Just like a rifle, you use them with caution and safety in mind.

Darryl Cassel

PS---Bounty Hunter, Are you in the USA or Canada?

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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Old 09-16-2002, 12:52 PM
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Re: Russian Military Laser rangefinder

Bounty Hunter

I have spoke to my lawyer and since I am not an exporter or importer of a unit it is classified as nothing more then an item such as a rifle.

If I sell you a rifle and you kill someone with it accidently or wound yourself, do you think you will win a case against me?

If I sell you a used automobile and you run over someone and kill them am I responsible?
Only if I didn't disclose a major problem with the auto do you have a chance in court.

You can sue anyone for anything but, winning the case is a different story.

They are not eyesafe and this is in the disclosure. I use them and find they are extremely portable and accurate. I also had the Barr and Strouds and Wilds for years and still do. My choice would be the Russian laser or the American Litton military units any day.

DC
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2002, 02:10 PM
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Re: Russian Military Laser rangefinder

Darryl,

Just because you are not the importer or exporter does not mean it is exempt from the law. That is like saying "I did not import or export this machine gun" therefore it is legal to sell. Absolutely no difference. The law does not say anything about "If you can sneak it in it is legal to sell and exempt from our standards". Any lawyer stupid enough to make that argument in court will probably get you 5 to 10.

Think I would talk to another lawyer.

If you sold rifle that was not legally manufactured to this countries standards and existing laws and you sold it no matter how you got it, yes you are liable. I think that they are doing that now in ref to illegal gun sales with the Gun Contol Act of 68. If you sold a rifle to a mentally retarded person so bad that it was obvious that and they did not understand what they had, how to safely use it, yes you could be sued and you would probably lose.

Very few if any of the general public is trained on class 111 lasers. They are buying something that they do not understand the safety rules and how dangerous it is, just like the mental retard. They assume because it is sold, that it is safe just like the material defect in the car. In your analogy about the defective car, that is exactly the defect that can bite you. You are selling an item that is dangerous and has many very specific rules and safety precautions for use, not just one vague warning.

ARE YOU PROVIDING THE RULES AND SAFETY PRECAUTIONS FOR USE OF THAT LASER?

A laser is much more than pushing a button and getting a reading. Just like a rifle is more than pulling a trigger. Only in this case there is not a local NRA laser safety course for them to take.

If your lawyer is so sure, have him write a letter to the FDA, quoting the CFR reference I listed, giving the exact model etc and request that they issue an opinion letter that the imported russian class III lasers are legal and ok for for sale in the US and meets their requirements. If it is legal they will do that. That way you are covered and so is the buyer. If not better hope he is real good in court.

Bounty Hunter
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2002, 02:30 PM
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Re: Russian Military Laser rangefinder

When I have a recording of anyone that asks me about the rangefinders and I state to them that they are not eyesafe and do not do this or that and any other unsafe practice with it and I also state that I am not responsible for the use or mis use of such item and they agree, then I am free of any legal action.

I have any and all emails to that effect from anyone I have talked to about them.

I have several friends who have 2 or 3 sets of the lasers and sell them from time to time to LR hunters.

Is your concern for them as well as me or do you have other motives?

Your information concerning the laser status, is news to me. I know of two companies in the USA selling them right now for $10,000.00 each. That company is in Ohio

I have only checked on the eyesafe situation I mentioned earlier.

Everyone is informed of that situation if they buy one from me and also what NOT to do with them.

Possibly this issue has been beat to death? I'll check with my legal advisor.

DC

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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