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Wildcat bullets consistency and accuracy!

 
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2005, 09:05 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N.C
Posts: 540
Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

Well I got some drop tests done with my 7 RUM out to 600 yards. We set up at 100, 300, 500, and 600 yards. I verified zero at 100 yards then shot one shot at 300 drove down and measured 5 and 1/2 inches low. Cranked my knob to compensate then fired a group of 3 into under 2 inches. ( pic below ) Then I stepped it out to 500 and measured 23 and 1/4 inches low on 2 shots. Cranked my knob for compensation then fired 3 into a 4 inch group with 2 nearly touching and one 4 inches below them. Sat back on the bench and fired 3 shots at 600 to find 7 inches low and a 4 and 1/2 inch group. Compensated with more elevation and fired another 3 shots with 2 touching and #3 blown off the side of the target by the cross wind. Unsure of this group size. All in all I totaled 35 and 3/4 inches drop from 100 to 600 yards with the big 169.5 wildcat. We batteled a cross wind all day that varied from 5 to 15 MPH and the last hour and a half of shooting it changed directions on us!
Here are some pics.
The first one is from the trucks looking down the field at the targets.
This next one is of the 300 yard group. The hole in the bottom came from a 25/06 that was shooting pretty good as well. The bottom left hole was part of a 1 and 1/2 inch group he shot at 300 after mine and the top right came from a 243 with a 22 inch barrel ( small barrel ) printing about 4 inch groups at 300. I'm unsure were that hole just above the orange circle at the bottom left came from.
Here is the 500 yard group it was off the paper but good none the less! The bottom hole doesn't really look like a hole but I swear it is! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Here are some pics of some of our rifles. Thats my RUM in the top and my buddy johnnyk's 25/06 sendero in the bottom. It wears a 4.5x14 leupold VXIII.
Here is another buddy's 300 winnie sendero that shoots good as well! All our rigs for today were stock with the exception of the bedding and brake job Kirby did on my RUM.
Here is a pic of another guy that shoots with us. His is a fast twist 6br that he built in gunsmith school that shoots like a house on fire. (That means very good if your unfamiliar with a little redneck)He's at the bench getting ready to let one go. He also brought out his AR15 with iron sights and shot from the ground at 300 and 600 and did pretty good.
Here is a pic of him shooting his AR.
Here is a pic of the small barrel 243 before the shot ( with some of my handloads )
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  #9  
Old 05-29-2005, 08:12 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
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Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

7RUMloader,

Very nice shooting, looks like a great set up as well to shoot at several different ranges with very little set up change.

Looks like the 7 is shooting well!

I noticed in your groups that there is always one the is a bit out of the group. Have you patterned your shots. Just wondering if it is the first shot after adjusting the scope as this can often cause this. Just curious if there is any consistancy to the slight flier. If its the 3rd round it is probably barrel heat in the factory barrel causing the flier.

I have seen this with many Rem factory barrels chambered for the RUM rounds, shots one and two are tight, the third opend up slightly and it seems to be a result of barrel heat.

All in all impressive shooting by any standard!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #10  
Old 05-29-2005, 08:53 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N.C
Posts: 540
Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

You nailed it Kirby! It's usualy the third shot that flies. It has become more evident as the temps rise. During the colder months the flier was not as bad. The temp was 80 to 85 degrees yesterday which produced more barrel heat than normal hince the more accentuated fliers.
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  #11  
Old 05-29-2005, 01:50 PM
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Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

7RUMloader,

Since your rifle is shooting as well as it is I hate to even bring this up but I have found out through extensive testing with my Allen Mags that using a slow ball powder produces dramatically less barrel heat then the high energy stick powders do.

This became dramatically clear when I rechambered my 257 STW to to test my 257 Allen Mag.

I started out using Retumbo which was the powder of choice for my STW in the 30" barrel with 100 to 130 gr bullets. In the Allen Mag with its +20 gr case capacity increase I was getting severe pressure variations with any stick powder so I was forced to search for a ball powder that would work.

I quickly realized that AA8700 was perfect for 100 to 130 gr bullets and that WC872 worked best with 130 to 156 gr pills in my 257 Allen Mag.

In comparision, using the 100 gr Wildcat BCFBHP loaded to 3950 fps in the STW and 4080 fps in my Allen Mag the barrel temp difference was dramatic comparing Retumbo with AA8700.

In my notes I have written, "after 5 shots, barrel to hot to hold". This was for the STW when I was developing loads in late September last fall, temps were in the 50 degree range.

With the 257 Allen Mag loaded with 8700 I could shoot an 8 shot string and easily hold the barrel with no discomfort from barrel heat. The barrel is certainly warm but not hot and thats with +100 fps more velocity and nearly 20 grains more powder burnt. Admittedly not a good trade off as the STW is a better design with 100 gr bullets but from there up it does not even compare to the AM with heavier bullet weights.

Anyway, the point is that you may want to play with some ball powder and see what kind of results you can get. Since your using H-50BMG I would recommend getting ahold of Jeff at www.gibrass.com and order in some WC872. You can use the same starting loads as with H-870 or 8700 with this powder but it is a bit slower. Even a bit slower then H-50BMG from what I have seen in my 270 Allen Mag where it performs extremely well with the 270 169.5 gr ULD easily topping 3300 fps. I am sure it would perform just as well in your big 7mm.

Advantages to ball powder:

1. Easy metering

2. Cooler burning temps

3. Less throat erosion

4. Cost

WC872 runs $40 per 8 lb keg from Jeff. I ordered in 32 lbs and with that large of an order you get a break on Haz shipping charges so the total for 32 lbs of 872 including shipping charges came to $188 and some change. Thats $5.88 per pound!!! A bit cheaper then H-50BMG.

There are a few disadvantages as well:

1. Does not burn clean except at good upper working pressure loads. Do not down load or it will look like a coal factory in your barrel!

2. Can be a bit more temp sensitive. Most run a winter and summer load with Ball powders. Ramshots new Magnum powder is said to be as temp resistant as Hodgdon stuff but I have not tested it enough to tell you 100% if this is true.

3. Lots can very from one to another but this is why you order 8 lbs of the stuff at a time or more. generally there are not alot of lots out there to get mixed up. The 32 lbs I ordered from Jeff is all same lot powder.

Just something to think about. In a round like the RUMS where you have 100 gr capacity, bore heat will always be an issue no matter what powder you use, but using a ball powder may get you 4 or 5 shots before fliers set in instead of 3.

Just an idea, like I said, as well as your rifle is shooting with the load you are using now I would think twice before considering a load change, there is really no real need as long as you keep your barrel cool.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2005, 07:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N.C
Posts: 540
Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

Thanks Kirby for the suggestion! I have been keeping up with most all of your posts about your allen mags and remembered you saying you got a lot better performance and less barrel heat with the ball powders. I ordered up some ramshot magnum and will be working up loads with it soon to see it's performance first hand.
I have witnessed the heat difference with different powders in my RUM just in the hodgdon line of powders. The H-1000 is cooler than any I've tried yet but doesn't perform that well with the big wildcats. The retumbo provides better performance with a barely noticeable heat difference from H-1000 but I was out when I started my main tests and the BMG powder provided the best performance overall but much more barrel heat than the others. I could fire 4 and 5 shots with H-1000 before the barrel got to the same temp with only 3 shots of BMG. There was however a 10 grain difference in charge which accounts for some of the heat. I have some more Retumbo here now and the Ramshot but only have enough wildcats to do load development with each powder which will be fine because I'm sure Richard has my new order on it's way!

I will check into the WC872 because at that price it's hard to turn down and with the case capacity I have 8 pounds will be gone before you know it.
I plan on having a RUM around for awhile so I may as well buy more than 8 pounds if it's a good performer. The plan is when this barrel is gone or the new AM arrives to ship this action and stock back to you to construct a 300 RUM! So powder will definitly be disappearing around here! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Download a rig of mine! Never! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Thanks again for your help Kirby and your kind words! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:22 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: El Reno,Ok.
Posts: 230
Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

fiftydriver,
I'm curious about your allen mags! What cartridges are the allen mags based on? Are these proprietary rounds? I would appreciate any info you could give me as I am into these type of super flat shooters.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2005, 06:51 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Winterville, NC
Posts: 1,497
Re: Drop tests and some groups with 169.5 wildcats. ( with pics )

7rum,
That's a 6.5-20x40 Vari-III on the .25-06 Rem. JK
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