I'll take a stab at this one bowman.
<font color="red">They are not made by S&B so there for they are Rubbish! </font> [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
<font color="blue">Pete has no use for any piece of glass not bearing the S&B logo! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] </font>
I don't own either but plan on owning one of the 2 soon.
From what I gather NXS is a fine scope well worth the 1K plus price and S&B is a work of art well worth the 2K plus price tags according to owners of them who should know.
Pete will be S&B till his death and frowns on most other scopes just like Leopold lovers frown upon others and so on.
As far as them being HAKKO rubbish I can't explain that one! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I'm sure Pete will have a go at it! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Pete don't take it personal just clearing the air a bit in case someone didn't know how you feel about S&B products! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Guns and ammo, what more do we need?
The NXS is made by Light Optical Works (Japan) who are said to build in house, they will build a scope to the spec the vendor wants cheapo or expensive.
As I understand it the BR range was and may still be built by Hakko, who sub contract, which may have more issues on quality control.
That is what I got from a Nightforce rep at IWA 2004. I am a bit unsure about the BR manufacture as the rep said early models were built by Hakko. I got the impression it included the BR model. Please check.
Well it happens a fair bit these days, several brands coming out of the same factory, Browning and Miroku, Weatherby Vanguard, Howa 1500 etc, Fabarm and Rotweil, VW Seat and Ford..
The nightforce scopes are made in the same bambu shed as the hakko's... heha.. lets stay light hearted on this one guys, we all know hakko's are crap (once bitten twice shy i am).
anyways, yes i'mand S&B man and have been for 10 years, doesn't mean i won't use anything else if S&B don't have the product i want, i just know that i can't 100% trust any thing else, i used an aimpoint 7000 for my driven boar rifle for a while, replaced it with a doctor optic scope. and now i've treid the S&B zenith, thats whats going on that rifle from now on. my un dying loyalty to S&B products comes from the last 15 years of experience with optics from every know maker, time and time again S&B have proven to be the most user friendly reliable, clear and dependable and tomy taste any way ergonomic scope there is. I've mounted, zeroed, and used enough scopes to fill several 40ft articulated trucks over the last years, and always without exeption S&B have proven to be the utmost reliable, reasonably priced and best scope. I've seen 1 and only one S&B with a problem, the grease on the adjustment internals needed replacing, it got stiffin cold weather. of every other scope brand, be it swarovski, zeiss-hensold, leupold, hakko, springfield, pecar, leisenfeld,zeiss ost, bushnell, nikkon, doctor, kahles, RWS, churchill, nikko sterling,gerhard, tasco, US optics(not seen many of them, but of the 5 or so i have seen 2 din't work right) frankonia, kettner,meopta, IOR,waldlaufer, norconia and a shed load of others, ive seen breakages, quality control problems, tracking and zero wandering problems in them all.
Whats the price of a good hunt these days, ? deer. a weeks roe buck stalking.. ? 600 to 800 pounds, an Elk hunt, $ ? 4000.. i dunno..
but for the sake of $400 to $1000 more spent on a S&B scope when compared to some of the others ( and even $ 100 -$250) less when compared to zeiss and swarovski, is is realy worth it to skimp on the scope.
guys, i've learned the hard way, ive gon to Scotland for a weeks stalking and had the blood leupold fail on me on the 2nd day (luckily i had an RWS 3-9 scope on the 22lr i had along for rabbiting and i swapped it onto my 30-06).
anyways, i remember the feeling of not bieng able to trust my scope. its like when the oil light comes on in the car,or there is a funny smell after 200 miles of a 1000 mile journey, its a bloody awfull feeling. and i don't want that everagain.
I'd trust my life to an S&B scope, i wouldn't to any other.
other manufacturers may have good customer service(so has S&B) they may have more options on reticles (I'm working on that and it will change soon) they may be cheaper( you generaly get what you pay for in the optics market, with the exeption of S&B compared to zeiss and swarovski) some may be made in the USA ( well S&B area German firm, i and no one at S&B can do anything about the lilly livered politics of Gerhard Schroeder or the left wing mentality of the majority of the german nation, but S&B are refreshingly conservative and to the right side of the middle of the road) what more can i say,
you guys will continue to buy what you can afford and like, i'll contine to get on my soap boxes about S&B scopes and slag all others off,, i just hope all is taken with a pinch of salt and in good humour. I'm just glad the US military wanted the best scope bar none and to hell with the cost and chose the S&B. me and a whole Marine Corps can't be wrong eh?
i'd love to discuss these topics around a hunting camp fire over some grilled meat and a few beers with you guys, cheers fellers
The nightforce you sent me keeps on ticking. It works great. I have it on 30-338 laupa improved and I can't complain a bit. It is amazing the punishment these scopes will take. I started out with one nightforce and I up to 5. They just keep on replacing my other scopes.
I can understand your reasoning. I guess the big question for most of on this side of the pond is Is it worth it to me and are they (in most cases)worth $1000 more then a Nightforce or Leupold, Nikon.. I'm guessing by the dollar difference you gave that you get for much less then we can here in the US? I'm sure that if we could get a S&B for a couple hundred dollars more than Leupold or Nightforce we would all have S&B's.
I had to jump in [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
1: Peter is the Propaganda Minister for S&B. I sure hope he is getting paid for all his hard work!
2: Peter thinks every scope in the world is trash, except S&B
3: Peter has broken every brand of scope in the world, except S&B.
I could go on, but why?
I personally like Leopold, Night Force, AND S&B. I really like the S&B two-turn turret with the window that indicates the second turn. Unfortunately S&B scopes are not worth the extra $1000 + over a comparable Leopold or Night Force. I can see a small steel plate at 1000 yards with either one, and the turrets work fine too. Both Leopold and Night Force scopes get the job done, so why spend more…. I also have never broken a Leopold in my civilian life or my past military life.
Now if S&B only cost $500 more then a Leo or Night then I would pay that just to get the two-turn turrets that I like…. Hopefully the exchange rate will get better for us in the future!
Peter, A correction to one of your pervious posts. The US Army uses Aimpoint and Leopold, NOT S&B. FYI , The Army just awarded the SASS (Semi-Automatic Sniper System) contract and it comes with a Leopold. The Special Operations Command might have some S&Bs, but they have a little of everything….. They get all the toys!!!
JUST Me.. propaganda minister.. ha. i like that.. but nope, i just know whats best in the world of optics and have been quite involved in some projects at S&B and Leica. I don't get paid by either, but you are right, i bloody well should..
I haven't broken every type of scope, personaly ive had Hakko, Swarovski,Doctor Optic and Leupold fail on me(plus a few other cheapo jap things) but i have seen scopes from most of the manufactureres having QC problems and failures, I was at one point mounting perhaps 20 to 30 scopes per week on hunting and target rifles, equal numbers of cheapo scopes and expensive ones. the percentage of failures was simply the Lowest in the S&B.
Keep your eye on the scope that the US Army eventualy end up with as a Sniper rifle scope, If some penny pinching arm chair REMF doesn't have the final say, i know what its gonna be..
with regards to prices. yes there is some difference in what we pay over here for our optics and what you guys do.
some examples:at todays exchange rate. 1 Euro = 1.19839 USD
Nightforce NXS 8-32x56
recomended retail price. dealer price shop around
2,390.80 USD 2,054.05 USD 2,250 USD