Big Bore, "It's too bad GG great post got hijacked by ad hominem attacks against Loopie products. " your right there, GG's original post was a praise for Leupolds customer service, and i'm responsible for hijacking the thread there after and for that i appologise. never the less it has turned into an interesting thread. Now personaly i can't fault Leupolds customer service. I can fault the European Distributors service in the fact that they collect broken scopes untill they have enough to warrant shipping for repair,( same thing happens with remington rifles too, same importer..) this may have improved since and i maybe there is an authorised repair facility over here. If i had a problem with a Leupold these days i'd send it in direct, and i'd advise anyone else to do the same.
As i mentioned before, i never let an opertunity to bash Leupold go past because i was let down so often by the things, i do the same to opel car drivers, hakko scope owners and blaser R93 owners, its maybe unfair in some ways, but its meant with good humour. But my leupold bashing is founded on over 20 years experience in the firearms industry and seeing scopes fail. If we see a broken scope, its a cheap asian thing, a hakko a springfield. a Leupold or a night force.
Now i know not every one can afford S&B scopes, but from an ex leupold user( i used them for about 10 years)they do not compare to the S&B. I had at least 8 top of the range leupolds sat on as many rifles at one point, without exeption, they all had warranty repair problems, lenses splintered in side, wandering zero, stiff adjustment on the BDC, the black coating comeing away inside, fogged optics. and since then i have used S&B. I had them all repaired, all 8, i then sold them all at a loss. but i raised enough money to buy one 3-12x50 Classic S&B and when the PMII came out i bough one of them, I sold the 3-12x50 classic in order to buy as many tax free fuel coupons as i could as i was leaving the Military at the time( i managed to run 9 months on those fuel coupons, so you can see i'm not a guy who's got cash to spare) I then fitted picatinny rails to all the rifles i was using and i swapped that one PMII around between all of them, that scope has seen so much abuse and so much use under so many different conditions and it has never once failed, the optical clarity is way beyond any leupold ive seen, its better than the NXS. I rate the S&B above the Zeiss , Swarovski, Kahles, Doctor and anything else. I'm not however only basing my thoughts on that one scope, ive seen and used many, i have, to date only ever seen one problem with a S&B scope, that was on a 2.5-10x56, it was an old scope and the grease on the adjustment mechanism had lost its viscosity in cold weather and the adjustment would stick and jump. I sent it in, the scope was turned around in a week or 10 days, completely cleaned, the lenses where re coated, the adjustment re greased with modern lubricants and all free of charge.
anyways, i'm going on again..
I applaud Leupolds customer service in the matter with GG. I have also had excellent customer service from S&B, Leica, Steiner, Zeiss/Hensold and Premier Reticles. Swarovski have proven to be snobs.
S&B are the best.
Leupold are good for the man with a budget who wants some quality.
But I have S&B scopes and Leupy's have got nothing on them not even close, here in Australia Leupolds are not well known for top service.
Most people here would rather spend extra and get European, because unlike the Leupolds they wont ever have to get sent back to be fixed.
Interms of light transmission the S&B sh!ts all over Leupold and Nightforce, I had a Nightforce 5-22X56 and It was quikly traded for a S&B.
The Military in Australia also use S&B on there .308s and .50s sniper rifles.
Im not saying Leupold are no good I have 2 myself but if you say there better than S&B your DREAMING!!!
FWIW--not to hijack the post or to stop an on going argument just want to relate my latest (and first experience) with burris. Everyone has seen their 3x9 ballistic plex on sale everywhere. I have 2 of them and was always afraid of their service based on bad stories wrote in the forums. Well one had some bad parralax. I called in and explained to a tech how the scope crosshairs were moving as I moved my eye postion. I expected to hear "what do you expect from one of our bottom line scopes without manual adjustment." Instead...without hesitation...he said....Thats not normal how quick can you send it in. Within one week it was back on my doorstep. Not bad at all.....a perfect match to the service I once got from Leupold when one of their scopes had a problem. Sure is nice when you get a GOOD SURPRISE once in a while!!
I have tried to contact Burris for quite some time about my compact 4-12AO. I am getting the same problem with the parralax; it looks like I am looking through a fish-bowl. It makes it very challenging to shoot my 300WM with any kind of accuracy. I have been avoiding calling them for some unknown reason, but after your experience . . . how could I not force myself to call them.
being a little pedantic here eh? this is discussion forum where people put forward their views and opinions.
i have already stated that i have 3 loopy scopes on my rifles and that i quite like them. i only got involved once GG mentioned eurotrash, and i felt i had to back pete's statement regarding the quality of some of our european optics. i didn't hi-jack anything.
nothing wrong with generalising either. you were doing it when you gave us your anecdotal evidence on the 50bmg communities' choice of scopes....
why don't you put a S&B scope on one of your rifles and generate some evidence of your own? hopefully you can be objective enough to give it a fair assessment.
ps, you may have noticed that there is no "z" in the word generalising [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Well i mentioned that i'd become a Leupold owner recently in the form of a 3-9x33. well as i had some clients over this weekend i needed some estate rifles, so i decided to use the LA 30-06 remmy i bought in with the scope attached,, well it took me 3 shots to convince my self why i use only S&B scopes. The rifle was off, maybe 8 inch left and 12 low. I adjusted the appropriate amount, firing the rifle after adjustment had the point of impact wander from where it was to where it should be in 2 to 4 " steps. I checked this out a little further, anbd did some more adjusting, same thing happened, i can adjust the scope but the internals don't move until it gets a shake up during recoil. once its in place, it seems to stay put. Just as well theres no BDC on it. Am i gonna send it in for the super service warranty repair? no, it will find place on my sons air gun. its about all its good for,
I dont need convincing that S&Bs have better optics, engineering and possible build quality than Leupolds, but they just do not have the style and looks of a Leupold.
As i have mentioned in a previous thread, in my opinion the original MK4 16x is the best looking scope you can buy, but i cant afford one of them so i have an 8.5-25 LRT with M1 turrets, an corking scope, which has given me great service even after bouncing it along the kitchen floor!(boy did shout some choice words when that happened).
There are many aspects to scope ownership, the main one being exspense, i think we should all strive to buy the best scope we can afford and as long as we are confident with our choices, we have no right to slag off users of other brands, apart from Pete Lincoln, because he is always the first to stick the knife in when it comes to Leupold Scopes [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].
As for warranty, i think that if Leupold knew how bad the official UK importer was when it comes to customer service, they would pull their dealership. If you have a problem with your leupold here in UK you are better off sending it back yourself [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img].
"I meant to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"