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  #232  
Old 11-20-2007, 10:06 PM
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Location: Potomac River
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APS 0.5 MOA Guarantee

As best I remember, Kirby guarantees his rifle to shoot 0.5 MOA.

I was sitting there on a rock outcrop and some cows and calves were bedded down on the next ridgeline about 1900 yards away. Twenty feet behind me were the fresh tracks of the 5X5 that I had missed a week earlier at 1425 yards because the rangefinder said the pine tree was at 1350 yards and I thought he was only a few yards past it. Based upon the tracks, the 5X5 was now alone and was holed up somewhere on one of the rocky fingers. As I looked through the Kowa 820 for him in the small clumps of pines and firs, I began to think about what was the “allowable error” at extreme range for the rangefinder part of the equation.

The first question to be answered in determining how accurate my range finding had to be was how big was the shooter/gun part of the equation. In other words if you are shooting at a 24 inch kill zone at 1200 yards and you normally shoot a 1.0 MOA group then you have 12 inches used up by the shooter/gun and you have 12 inches left for range error. Of the 12 inches there are 6 up and 6 down which is 0.5 MOA of allowable range error either too far or too short.

On the other hand if you shoot at 1500 yards and the shooter/gun combo uses up 1.0 MOA of the target that is 15 inches and you only have 4.5 inches of up or down elevation available for ranging error which is only one click of error. Obviously, at a mile things get very tricky. At 1820 yards, the 6X6 I had seen the previous evening would be an exercise in precision ranging and shooting with no allowable error.

It seemed to me that what I needed to know was what was my shooter/gun group size at long range and then I could better determine the accuracy of rangefinding I needed. I was also greatly perturbed about not winning an APS hat so I decided that in a couple of days elk season would be over and I would shoot me a long range group with the 7mm AM and while I was at it check to see if the BC of the 200 gr RBBT Wildcat bullet changed past 1000 yards.

So elk season came to an end with there being no dead elk and I set out to learn two things: long range group size and long range BC. I shot at 100 yards to verify zero and then at 1050 yards to verify drop. Finally, I set up some paper on a ridgeline at 1563 yards and fired at it from the exact same shooting position that I had used on the 5X5 elk. This simulated my normal hunting accuracy. The wind was the normal midday canyon thermal and was running a variable 0.8 – 2.1 mph. It took me two rounds to get the drop adjusted because it was seemed that the BC was degrading over the longer distance.

I fired four rounds for group and the vertical dispersion was 8 inches for four and 7.5 for three. Horizontal was 12 inches due to the varying wind. An 8 inch group at 1563 yards is a 0.48885 MOA group which is still within the APS guarantee.

Maybe, I will try at 2000 yards and see if the APS guarantee holds out to 2K.
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  #233  
Old 11-20-2007, 10:27 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I was thinking about this the other day when reading some threads pertaining to this same subject.

I can just see it now.......guys contacting Kirby and complaining cause the damn gun shot an 11" group at 2000 yards and they (BB??) want their money back or the gun fixed. Seems like we can't get a smile out of Kirby but this might get at least a little frown out of him.

Bet when he started stretching the envelope that he never thought it would stretch as long as it has, and so quickly.;)

By the way....great shooting;)
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  #234  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:50 AM
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Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
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I wondered if you were really going to do what you said you were going to do. You did! That's the extra level of dedication that makes those longer shots possible. I can pretty much visualize where you set the target.

Nothing like taking the spotting shots a year or so early.;)

I learned a bunch on that trip and enjoyed every moment of it except for maybe the those damn field mice.

With all of the time on my hands @ the shooting spot and other places, I had plenty of time to think and evaluate my equipment. The equipment that didn't cut the mustard is in the process of being upgraded.

The backpack is finished. Three parts all integral. Rifle carrier, back pack, fanny pack and shot making equipment bag (LRF, PDA, Kestrel, Bullet, Range Charts, etc). All on that aluminum pack frame I had. The McDonalds 2000 Olympics backpack is history.

Long heavy barrel rifle carry system. Modified the bipod, after repair, w/a sling stud on either side and a flush mount on the bottom of the butt stock. (It makes no difference if its on the side or bottom). Built a Y connector for the front and a loop through the rear which connect to the studs. The rifle maintains its up/down orientation naturally. The same system can be applied to the Harris bipod by using longer main machine screws to mount sling loops.

Design of bipod leg extensions is complete but not yet fabricated. This is to facilitate getting set for the 25* up angle shot quickly.

The SS came off of the AM and the Weaver Tactical installed and sighted in. I've seriously shopped for a scope of at least 6.5-20 X 50 or 56. Those that have been eliminated are Zeiss, Nikon, Burris, etc. I can't get used to spending the big bucks for the NF and High End Leupolds. I'll check out that Leupold LR again before I decide anything.

The 10X25 binos have got to go. I'll move up to the 10X50 class with some large exit pupils.

The Nikon XL-II worked just fine once I put the cheapie tripod together with the pana-vise. The expensive Dynatran Tripod and fancy head worked OK but were no where near the performance of the way less expensive setup.

Leica 1200 Scan LRF. Worked as designed and was satisfactory for anything under 1215 yards. I think there is a circuit in there that says if greater than 1215 then "------". I wonder if anyone has hacked a Leica;)

Next time I'll be more detailed with the range chart though the one I made while there was fairly detailed. I know more now than I did then thus this will be upgraded. (I'm glad I took that drawing class a year or so ago.)

However, I learned while hanging around BB for that month what it takes to be able to do what he did with his above stated shooting at 1500+.

I'm going to start hunting yotes in the exact same way we were going for the deer and elk. It should be pretty boring but very productive in the long run.

If a fella has one of those AMs in the woods it may as well be used for its designed intent. Otherwise its like playing a strativarious (?) in a whore house.;)

That buck we saw that last night, long after deer season was over, has me fired up. I've been comparing the images in my mind with images in magazines and other places. That fella is a hard one to beat. I wonder how to find if he makes it through the winter?

The next time I hit the hills with the "big girl" I'll be ready at that completely unexpected moment to make the shot on a buck like that where ever it appears and for whatever period of time.

This year's month in the mtns was great preparation.
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  #235  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royinidaho View Post
Otherwise its like playing a strativarious (?) in a whore house.;)
Will details be found in BB's story of the trip that he's writing?
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  #236  
Old 11-21-2007, 11:08 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
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It's good to know that his is developing the story for posting.


Hey, that was an expression I came up with when Richard Boon (of Have Gun Will Travel) played a classical violin fella and got hired by a brothel and was forced to fiddle.

For the record: BB only visited the Library. Oh yeah, he was directed to the feed store to find a propane tree. He couldn't quite figure that one out. But he did learn a lot about bear bait there.
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  #237  
Old 11-21-2007, 11:09 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Katy, Texas
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"The SS came off of the AM and the Weaver Tactical installed and sighted in. I've seriously shopped for a scope of at least 6.5-20 X 50 or 56. Those that have been eliminated are Zeiss, Nikon, Burris, etc. I can't get used to spending the big bucks for the NF and High End Leupolds. I'll check out that Leupold long range again before I decide anything."

You might try looking at the new Millet TRS-1 scopes or new generation 6X25X56 Varmint scopes. I have an older generation Varmint scope and am really impressed as to the scopes ability to track. I have not really put it through its paces yet as I am still tweaking my 7MM STW loads. They have really upgraded their line and are making great strides to improve their markets reputation.

Look at Optics talk and look at all the Millet threads. Steve, I guess the general manager at Millet, post there and will answer any of your questions.

Just a thought for a new scope?
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  #238  
Old 12-10-2007, 03:06 AM
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btt
thanks
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