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Allen Mag Shooters Group

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Unread 10-06-2006, 04:16 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas born and raised
Posts: 752
Allen Mag Shooters Group

Well I have been thinking about this for a while and figure rather than spread all of our findings out in various threads why not just keep it all in one. So I decided to fire away and start it off. IF you thinki it might help out with the folks who are just getting into them feel free to pass along any input you feel pertentant, or ask questions about things your looking to try. Like was mantioned, it might help someone save some barrel wear or components.

This rigs are made for two things, reaching out and touching something with authority, and burning large amounts of powder doing so.

So here we go,

Roy, As Tim mentioned in the other post, down here it is very hard to get some of the load densities that others are getting. Even using the 872 we are still somewhere between 4-6 or so grains behind most in our loads. Using 869 I have loaded up to 102grs, however this was only when the temps were hovering around the low 70's. Even at the upper 70's tepms a 100gr load was showing some pretty significant extractor marks.


I don't have any 150 NBT's at this time but here is a Solid Base in with the 169.5 & 195 Wildcat's for comparison,

From left to right, 150gr Nosler Solid Base, 169.5 Wildcat, 195gr Wildcat

Hope this helps, I just figured that we could use one thread to summarize our data rather than spreading it out between several. It doesn't have to be exclusively for the .270 or .277, but it will make searching for data on them all a little easier.
Mike / Tx

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"Heck why would I lie, most folks don't believe the truth when I tell them"
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Unread 10-06-2006, 06:03 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,863
Re: Allen Mag Shooters Group

Good idea, Mike.

Just checked UPS and my scope is out for delivery. This rifle is the first one that I've ever owned that actually demands a decent reticle and accurate clicks. This one has both, at least for these tired old eyes.

By extraction marks do you mean marks on the case face?

I hear you on the temperature, plus you have air density working against you, but if there's a cartridge and bullet that will over come those obstacles, you have it.

That's quite a bearing surface on the 195, does it heat up the barrel anymore than the 169s or the standard bullets?

Hope to have something meaningful to post shortly.
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
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Unread 10-06-2006, 07:41 AM
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: El Reno, OK
Posts: 1,497
Re: Allen Mag Shooters Group

Pretty good idea Mike, will definantly keep people from having to search all over hell for info.

Well here is the load i am currently using, it is also the load that got is still blowing holes in 3/8" steel at 910yds.

169.5 ULD
101.0gr US869
Fed GM215M primer
Loaded .002" off lands
Rem 7mm RUM brass
No real case prep

This load will group around 2.5" at 650yds pretty regular. This load is also VERY hot and I dont recommend it. I have not chronod it but when developing my drops out to 1K i used Exbals velocity tweaking controls and a speed of around 3500fps matches my drops, 14.5moa at 1K. This load is laser flat and hits with definate authority but I suspect case life will be around 4-5 firings. When I get my gun rebarreled next year i will be trying to get her to shoot the 169.5's around 3200fps or the 195 around 3000.

I have also found that my gun really likes it if you just keep the powder fouling out of the bbl. As long as i give the bore a quick scrub out every 25rnds or so she shoots great regardless of copper build up.

take it easy
Steve Elmenhorst
Third Generation Shooting Supply
"Products for shooters, by shooters"
monday-friday 8:30-5:30 CST
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Unread 10-06-2006, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 181
Re: Allen Mag Shooters Group

Well here is the data I had in the other post. Figured I would move it here as well.

There is no way we can stuff 100grs. of H-869 behind the 169.5's down here 165 feet above sea level and get sane pressures. Hell I got 94gr. of 869 pushing the 169.5's a legit 3400fps with no signs of preasure but backed it back down to 92.5gr and getting 3280-3300fps. which shoots .123 at 100yds.

The 195's I have stoked with 94gr. of 872 clocking 3250-3300fps with no preasure and cut a .075 group.

I have both bullets loaded with 10k jump and she shoots great. Mike's rifle likes 15k jump better.
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Unread 10-06-2006, 09:11 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas born and raised
Posts: 752
Re: Allen Mag Shooters Group

The marks I was referring to are ranging from a slight shiny area which goes around the rim from 1/3 - 1/2 on the bottom of the case, a slight flowing into the extractor button, to some pretty nasty flowing and a definate bolt lift issue. These were things which I had to learn about in our area using the 869, and some of the loads others were using. I have since backed off to a 92.5gr load of 869 for the 169.5's and have absolutely no problems with pressures or case life. Some of the cases I am using have been loaded upwards of 8 times with this load and no loose pockets so far. This load gives me 3260 +/-fps depending on the temps at the time and groups well under MOA at all ranges I have shot it to 1150yds.

The 195gr load I have uses 94grs of 872, and is rocking along around 3150 fps. from my rifle. This is a top end load and when the temps hit above 95 degrees I start to feel some resistance in bolt lift. However, under 90 degrees it has not been an issue, even using some of the previous mentioned cases. All bullets for this rifle are seated to a base to ogive OAL. This keeps my distance from the lands at an even distance.

These loads are top end and if you use this data, please back down at least 5 grs and work up. Either of these powders will work great in this caliber and case combo, but you will have to determine your own upper limits. Mine were decided by picking a velocity and working towards it. I wanted a good velocity but didn't necessarily want to burn out the barrel in short order. I figured that mid-3200's was sufficient for anything I would be shooting, and when I hit that range, I started playing with other things.

For seating depths, I started on the lands, and worked out to .050" off. I noted in my barrel, that I increased copper fouling the further away I went. I also noted that I had passed up a node in my jumps and once I backed up some I hit the groups I was looking for. So for now, I am sitting roughly .015 off, and grouping great.

As for the bearing lengths, yes the 195's are some long puppies, and after shooting the 169.5's with the 869, that was one of the factors which leaned me towards the 872. I figured that I would get much better densities and less pressures using it. As for the sooty burn charactoristic, well it does deminish at the upper ends of the loads. With the groups I have gotten I can easily deal with it. As to the barrel heating up more with them over the others, I haven't really paid that much attention to it.
Mike / Tx

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"Heck why would I lie, most folks don't believe the truth when I tell them"
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Unread 10-06-2006, 06:35 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,651
Re: Allen Mag Shooters Group

Hey guys, I will soon be a the proud owner of a 338 Allen Mag. Is this group for a specific caliber of Allen Mag, or will it be for all Allen Mag owners. This sounds like it would be a good idea.

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Unread 10-07-2006, 02:54 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mathias wv
Posts: 987
Re: Allen Mag Shooters Group

I have a 7 AM, my load is 110 gr of 872 behind a 160 gr nosler, this load is fine at 75 degrees and below, right at 3500 fps. tried it once at 90 degrees, couldn't get the bolt up. at 85 degrees got a heavy bolt lift and 3736 fps.
From my research I've found that the heavier bullet you shoot the less the temp sensativity effects it. I just shoot in cool weather.
the bullet is just off the lands and have shot a 1.875 group at 660 yds.want to give it a go at 1K when I get a good day.
Born to Hunt, Forced to Work!
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