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20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

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  #1  
Unread 08-22-2013, 11:53 PM
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20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

Ok so I have a Leupold VX-3 Tactical 4.5-14x40 A/O. 1" tube.
I had Leupold install the Boone & Crocket Varmint Hunters reticle at the custom shop, after checking the sub tension specs, & finding that they were almost identical to my 300WSM launching 180 Accubonds for drops.


Leupold 20 MOA RAIL &
Leupold PRW Medium rings

Put it all together when I got my rifle, scope, rings etc back from CeraKote guy in time to shoot a quick 200 yd zero.
TERRIBLE IDEA!
My stadia lines are so far off its not even funny.

Zeroed at 200 went bear hunting, & figured I'd field verify my drops by going long. At 600 I was like 8 feet high with my 550 yd stadia line!

So, shot a rock at 300 with my 300 yd pin, to find out that I was about 30" low!
So, to salvage my hunt, I zeroed my 300 yd pin @300. My 400 yd pin shoots 5-1/2" low at 500! (My 500yd pin is way over my steel target @ 500)

So this hunt is limited to 500 & less, but I'd like to get this issue resolved BEFORE Elk season.
Just a WAG, but I'm thinking the 20 MOA Rail & hold over lines aren't compatible(?)

My initial solutions:
I'm thinking either I keep the 20 MOA Rail, & dial only, & have Leupold replace the Varmint Hunters Reticle, with a set of fine crosshairs, OR replacing the 20 MOA Rail with a 0 MOA Rail, & live with not having enough "come up's" to get to any fun distance.
Problem is I want both stadia lines for the quick & close 0-600 yd stuff, & dial past that.
Any thoughts?
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"Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
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  •   #2  
    Unread 08-23-2013, 02:25 AM
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    Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

    With the 300 WSM and 180 grain bullet @2950 fps, the B&C reticule is designed for a 200 yard zero.
    So as long as you could get down to a 200 yard zero which it seems you did , even with the added 20 MOA rail , it should be accurate when zeroed at 200 .
    I sounds to me like they may have fitted the wrong reticule or your actual trajectory is different to what they think it should be .
    Never been a fan of BDC reticules . I like Mil dot and Mil Hash mark reticules and work out your own amount of holdovers.
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      #3  
    Unread 08-23-2013, 12:05 PM
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    Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
    With the 300 WSM and 180 grain bullet @2950 fps, the B&C reticule is designed for a 200 yard zero.
    So as long as you could get down to a 200 yard zero which it seems you did , even with the added 20 MOA rail , it should be accurate when zeroed at 200 .
    I sounds to me like they may have fitted the wrong reticule or your actual trajectory is different to what they think it should be .
    Never been a fan of BDC reticules . I like Mil dot and Mil Hash mark reticules and work out your own amount of holdovers.
    300WSM, 180's at tic over 3100fps.

    I really like the BDC reticle a for the close (0-600) stuff. They are quick & simple, & save time dialing, & at that close your not gonna be off by much. I still work out my actual drops before I'm satisfied with my stadia lines, & dial the rest.

    Initially I hoped to have the capability to do both. I figured a 200 yd zero was a 200 yd zero, & the stadia lines would stay the same with or without the 20 MOA RAIL.
    Now I'm just confused....
    Archery starts tomorrow, so I may just go poke a bear instead. I'll call Leupold when I get home from my hunt.
    Thanks for the reply
    __________________
    "Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
    GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

    "I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
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      #4  
    Unread 08-24-2013, 01:31 AM
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    Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winmag View Post
    300WSM, 180's at tic over 3100fps.

    I really like the BDC reticle a for the close (0-600) stuff. They are quick & simple, & save time dialing, & at that close your not gonna be off by much. I still work out my actual drops before I'm satisfied with my stadia lines, & dial the rest.

    Initially I hoped to have the capability to do both. I figured a 200 yd zero was a 200 yd zero, & the stadia lines would stay the same with or without the 20 MOA RAIL.
    Now I'm just confused....
    Archery starts tomorrow, so I may just go poke a bear instead. I'll call Leupold when I get home from my hunt.
    Thanks for the reply
    I think that may be the problem . I am sure I read some place that the reticule for 300 WSM is designed for 180 grain bullet @ 2950fps in group A and zero @ 200 yards for group A
    They give a drop accuracy variation of 35 to 45 inch @ 500 yards across all the cartridges in group A so that's not very accurate 10 inch variation at 500 and why I don't like them much. Some will be lucky and it very close to their trajectory and others will not be.
    I found it http://www.leupold.com/wp-content/up...l_17July12.pdf

    Your right the 20 MOA should make no difference if you can zero at 200 yards .
    If you have MOA turrets on the scope send it back and ask for a replacement MOA dot reticule and then just learn your holdovers in MOA .
    That way if you change bullets or powder loads at any point you can adjust your holdovers accordingly .
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      #5  
    Unread 08-28-2013, 01:12 PM
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    Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
    I think that may be the problem . I am sure I read some place that the reticule for 300 WSM is designed for 180 grain bullet @ 2950fps in group A and zero @ 200 yards for group A
    They give a drop accuracy variation of 35 to 45 inch @ 500 yards across all the cartridges in group A so that's not very accurate 10 inch variation at 500 and why I don't like them much. Some will be lucky and it very close to their trajectory and others will not be.
    I found it http://www.leupold.com/wp-content/up...l_17July12.pdf

    Your right the 20 MOA should make no difference if you can zero at 200 yards .
    If you have MOA turrets on the scope send it back and ask for a replacement MOA dot reticule and then just learn your holdovers in MOA .
    That way if you change bullets or powder loads at any point you can adjust your holdovers accordingly .
    Guessing you we're looking at the wrong chart.
    Here is Leupolds sub tensions / aiming system catalog that I have.
    In print (MOA) is theirs.
    In ink is mine (also in MOA)
    * 1/2 MOA is the most I'm off.....20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble-image.jpg
    __________________
    "Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
    GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

    "I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
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      #6  
    Unread 08-28-2013, 07:49 PM
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    Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

    I might be looking at the wrong one , but you said Boone and Crocket reticule .

    The info I saw said Boone and Crocket reticule not Leupold Hunter ?
    It appears now that your error is not as much as you first posted so that seems better .
    From what I can see it's only approx. 1 MOA out at 500 .
    I think that is probably the limitations of this kind of trajectory averaging type system.
    I notice you live not far from where my mother was born Hood River .
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      #7  
    Unread 08-28-2013, 11:23 PM
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    Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

    I apologize. I did say Boone & Crocket Varmint Hunters Reticle, not just Varmint Hunters reticle.

    Yes my poi vs poa is as bad as I originally stated with the current setup.

    The ink pen in the picture is what I should actually be, which is right in line with the sub tensions of this reticle.

    So in short I'm super confused, & lousy at grammar.
    Sorry Bb my bad
    __________________
    "Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
    GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

    "I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
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