Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Equipment Discussions


Reply

20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:53 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond Or.
Posts: 2,527
20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

Ok so I have a Leupold VX-3 Tactical 4.5-14x40 A/O. 1" tube.
I had Leupold install the Boone & Crocket Varmint Hunters reticle at the custom shop, after checking the sub tension specs, & finding that they were almost identical to my 300WSM launching 180 Accubonds for drops.


Leupold 20 MOA RAIL &
Leupold PRW Medium rings

Put it all together when I got my rifle, scope, rings etc back from CeraKote guy in time to shoot a quick 200 yd zero.
TERRIBLE IDEA!
My stadia lines are so far off its not even funny.

Zeroed at 200 went bear hunting, & figured I'd field verify my drops by going long. At 600 I was like 8 feet high with my 550 yd stadia line!

So, shot a rock at 300 with my 300 yd pin, to find out that I was about 30" low!
So, to salvage my hunt, I zeroed my 300 yd pin @300. My 400 yd pin shoots 5-1/2" low at 500! (My 500yd pin is way over my steel target @ 500)

So this hunt is limited to 500 & less, but I'd like to get this issue resolved BEFORE Elk season.
Just a WAG, but I'm thinking the 20 MOA Rail & hold over lines aren't compatible(?)

My initial solutions:
I'm thinking either I keep the 20 MOA Rail, & dial only, & have Leupold replace the Varmint Hunters Reticle, with a set of fine crosshairs, OR replacing the 20 MOA Rail with a 0 MOA Rail, & live with not having enough "come up's" to get to any fun distance.
Problem is I want both stadia lines for the quick & close 0-600 yd stuff, & dial past that.
Any thoughts?
__________________
"Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

"I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-23-2013, 02:25 AM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 736
Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

With the 300 WSM and 180 grain bullet @2950 fps, the B&C reticule is designed for a 200 yard zero.
So as long as you could get down to a 200 yard zero which it seems you did , even with the added 20 MOA rail , it should be accurate when zeroed at 200 .
I sounds to me like they may have fitted the wrong reticule or your actual trajectory is different to what they think it should be .
Never been a fan of BDC reticules . I like Mil dot and Mil Hash mark reticules and work out your own amount of holdovers.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-23-2013, 12:05 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond Or.
Posts: 2,527
Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
With the 300 WSM and 180 grain bullet @2950 fps, the B&C reticule is designed for a 200 yard zero.
So as long as you could get down to a 200 yard zero which it seems you did , even with the added 20 MOA rail , it should be accurate when zeroed at 200 .
I sounds to me like they may have fitted the wrong reticule or your actual trajectory is different to what they think it should be .
Never been a fan of BDC reticules . I like Mil dot and Mil Hash mark reticules and work out your own amount of holdovers.
300WSM, 180's at tic over 3100fps.

I really like the BDC reticle a for the close (0-600) stuff. They are quick & simple, & save time dialing, & at that close your not gonna be off by much. I still work out my actual drops before I'm satisfied with my stadia lines, & dial the rest.

Initially I hoped to have the capability to do both. I figured a 200 yd zero was a 200 yd zero, & the stadia lines would stay the same with or without the 20 MOA RAIL.
Now I'm just confused....
Archery starts tomorrow, so I may just go poke a bear instead. I'll call Leupold when I get home from my hunt.
Thanks for the reply
__________________
"Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

"I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-24-2013, 01:31 AM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 736
Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmag View Post
300WSM, 180's at tic over 3100fps.

I really like the BDC reticle a for the close (0-600) stuff. They are quick & simple, & save time dialing, & at that close your not gonna be off by much. I still work out my actual drops before I'm satisfied with my stadia lines, & dial the rest.

Initially I hoped to have the capability to do both. I figured a 200 yd zero was a 200 yd zero, & the stadia lines would stay the same with or without the 20 MOA RAIL.
Now I'm just confused....
Archery starts tomorrow, so I may just go poke a bear instead. I'll call Leupold when I get home from my hunt.
Thanks for the reply
I think that may be the problem . I am sure I read some place that the reticule for 300 WSM is designed for 180 grain bullet @ 2950fps in group A and zero @ 200 yards for group A
They give a drop accuracy variation of 35 to 45 inch @ 500 yards across all the cartridges in group A so that's not very accurate 10 inch variation at 500 and why I don't like them much. Some will be lucky and it very close to their trajectory and others will not be.
I found it http://www.leupold.com/wp-content/up...l_17July12.pdf

Your right the 20 MOA should make no difference if you can zero at 200 yards .
If you have MOA turrets on the scope send it back and ask for a replacement MOA dot reticule and then just learn your holdovers in MOA .
That way if you change bullets or powder loads at any point you can adjust your holdovers accordingly .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-28-2013, 01:12 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond Or.
Posts: 2,527
Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
I think that may be the problem . I am sure I read some place that the reticule for 300 WSM is designed for 180 grain bullet @ 2950fps in group A and zero @ 200 yards for group A
They give a drop accuracy variation of 35 to 45 inch @ 500 yards across all the cartridges in group A so that's not very accurate 10 inch variation at 500 and why I don't like them much. Some will be lucky and it very close to their trajectory and others will not be.
I found it http://www.leupold.com/wp-content/up...l_17July12.pdf

Your right the 20 MOA should make no difference if you can zero at 200 yards .
If you have MOA turrets on the scope send it back and ask for a replacement MOA dot reticule and then just learn your holdovers in MOA .
That way if you change bullets or powder loads at any point you can adjust your holdovers accordingly .
Guessing you we're looking at the wrong chart.
Here is Leupolds sub tensions / aiming system catalog that I have.
In print (MOA) is theirs.
In ink is mine (also in MOA)
* 1/2 MOA is the most I'm off.....20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble-image.jpg
__________________
"Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

"I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:49 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 736
Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

I might be looking at the wrong one , but you said Boone and Crocket reticule .

The info I saw said Boone and Crocket reticule not Leupold Hunter ?
It appears now that your error is not as much as you first posted so that seems better .
From what I can see it's only approx. 1 MOA out at 500 .
I think that is probably the limitations of this kind of trajectory averaging type system.
I notice you live not far from where my mother was born Hood River .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-28-2013, 11:23 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond Or.
Posts: 2,527
Re: 20 MOA rail, & hold over reticle trouble

I apologize. I did say Boone & Crocket Varmint Hunters Reticle, not just Varmint Hunters reticle.

Yes my poi vs poa is as bad as I originally stated with the current setup.

The ink pen in the picture is what I should actually be, which is right in line with the sub tensions of this reticle.

So in short I'm super confused, & lousy at grammar.
Sorry Bb my bad
__________________
"Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

"I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC