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Unread 08-03-2005, 01:35 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas / Oklahoma / Boarder
Posts: 690

Dear Gentelmen
I would like to say I posted this article to let people that live in the other parts of the USA know what is going in oklahoma. This issue may have happened in other states years before. Do not make your oppion by what i have posted I would just like you to look at all of the wed address that I have posted an I am shure that there are more articles on this subject . I have seen change in the rural arear but they have to be a common ground for both sides I have posted this on 24 hour camp fire an sniper hide if you want to read some other articles . the biggest problems is the one that this hurts is the working man . I have learned from an wise older gentelmen that ""It is better to think before you speak knot speak before you think"" I have learned this the hard way. Here is a post from "chck shucker" I think that every body needs to read the following. It was posted as a reply to my previous article on another site.

Yeah, in this particular situation, I guess I am. I don't work for said company, however, my wife does. Her little Phillips 66 store is already struggiling, with the local economy being what it is, and now this. She worked her butt off for ten years to get where she is, and it may be time to go back to square one.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was even the company she works for that fired the employees, but that company is a paper mill in Oklahoma, Weyerhaeuser. Why not go after them??

Nice, the little guy don't matter, stomp on eveyone in the way to get what you want.

I am a NRA member, and support their cause, but jeeze, I am almost on the company side on this one.

Here is a statement from Conoco/Phillips66

“ConocoPhillips supports the Second Amendment and respects the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns,” the company said. “We are simply trying to provide a safe and secure working environment for our employees by keeping guns out of our facilities, including our company parking lots.”

Here is a Wallstreet Journal artical that explains the issue better than the NRA version;

Wall Street Journal
November 26, 2004


In Oklahoma, a Ban On Guns Pits State Against Big Firms
Weyerhaeuser Fired Workers
Who Had Weapons in Cars,
And Legal Dispute Unfolds

November 26, 2004; Page A1

VALLIANT, Okla. -- In late summer of 2002, Steve Bastible put three bullets into a dying cow at his ranch, threw the emptied rifle behind the seat of his pickup and forgot about it.

A few weeks later, the rifle cost him his job of 23 years.

That Oct. 1, in a surprise search, Weyerhaeuser Co. sent gun-sniffing dogs into the parking lot of its paper mill here. Mr. Bastible and 11 other workers were fired after guns were found in their vehicles. The timber company said the weapons violated a new company policy that extended a longtime workplace gun ban to the parking area. The fired workers said they knew nothing of the new rule.

The firings outraged many in this wooded community in the foothills of the Ouachita Mountains. In rural Oklahoma, carrying a firearm in one's car is commonplace. "In Oklahoma, gun control is when you hit what you shoot at," says Jerry Ellis, a member of the state legislature.

Now, the dispute is reverberating beyond the borders of tiny Valliant, located in the southeast corner of the state. In response, the state legislature overwhelmingly passed a law giving Oklahomans the right to keep guns locked in their cars in parking lots. But just days before the law was to go into effect this month, several prominent companies with Oklahoma operations, including Whirlpool Corp. and ConocoPhillips sued to stop it. A federal judge put the law on hold pending a hearing.

Meanwhile, several of the paper-mill workers have filed wrongful-discharge lawsuits against Weyerhaeuser and its subcontractors, which employed the workers. "This is a heck of an injustice that needs to be fixed," says their Tulsa lawyer, Larry Johnson, 72 years old, who has spent a lifetime studying the second amendment.

On one side, companies are trying to keep guns away from the workplace, driven by real-life horror stories of disgruntled employees on the rampage, stalking the hallways and shooting down bosses and co-workers. On the other side are employees who argue that guns help keep law-abiding workers safer.

The debate transcends partisan politics. Nearly 90% of voters in the county are registered Democrats, and yet 66% of county voters cast ballots for George Bush for president, in part because they viewed him as more pro-gun.

The new law was sponsored by Mr. Ellis, a Democrat from McCurtain County. It passed unanimously in the Oklahoma Senate, and on a 92-4 vote in the House. "I just didn't think the state should be dictating weapons policy to property owners," says J. Mike Wilt, a Republican from Bartlesville who was among the four voting against the law.

Mr. Ellis, a former mill worker himself, counters: "These are good, hardworking, tax-paying, law-abiding citizens. I just wish these big companies could understand that these people are not a threat to anybody."

Guns are part of everyday life in McCurtain County, where many residents hunt and ranch, and houses are miles apart. In the local gun and pawn shop in the county seat of Idabel, worker David Brakebill spreads out a map on the counter and points to the green blotches representing vast expanses of tree-covered wilderness. "When you call the police," says Vicki Luna, an owner of the gun store, "they don't get there for 30 minutes -- if they can find your house."

The Weyerhaeuser paper mill has been the largest employer in town for more than 30 years, providing about 2,500 jobs in the area and contributing more than $55 million annually to the local economy in taxes, payroll and community donations, according to the company. The whole gun flap actually started with an apparent drug overdose at the plant. Plant manager Randy Nebel hired a security company to bring in four dogs to search for drugs and guns in the parking lot. The dogs didn't find any drugs but zeroed in on several vehicles containing firearms.

The company then ordered the workers to open the suspect cars so that they could be hand-searched. A dozen workers, four Weyerhaeuser employees and eight who worked for subcontractors, were suspended for having rifles, shotguns or handguns. A couple of days later, they were fired as part of Weyerhaeuser and its subcontractors' zero-tolerance policy for major safety violations, the companies say.

Jimmy "Red" Wyatt, a 45-year-old father of five who worked his way up from the factory floor to supervisor in his 22 years at the mill, says he often carried his rifle to scare off coyotes threatening the cattle he raises in his spare time. A shotgun also found was left over from bird hunting with his sons the day before.

Mr. Nebel says that firing Mr. Wyatt, a model worker, was difficult. But after clearing the parking lot of guns, "I believe the plant is safer," he said.

The plant manager said the new gun rule had been in place since January 2002 after reversing a previous policy that had allowed workers to leave their guns locked in their cars. The company says it told workers in writing and during "team meetings" of the new policy. "It was well known this would be dealt with severely," said Mr. Nebel. Mr. Wyatt and the other fired workers say they never were told of the changed rule.

Hearing of the case, the National Rifle Association referred the workers to Mr. Johnson, a longtime gun-rights advocate. Mr. Johnson contacted Mr. Ellis, and together they crafted what was to become the new law. In a recent brief supporting the law, Mr. Johnson sprinkled his legal arguments with historic quotes from poets and philosophers. "I even quoted Christ," he says, reciting a snippet from the Book of Luke in which Jesus admonishes his followers, "Let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one."

In fighting the law, Oklahoma companies are walking through a community-relations minefield in what is known as an NRA stronghold. The Oklahoma State Chamber of Commerce normally supports the NRA. But it says it joined the lawsuit opposing the law because it believes companies should be able to exclude weapons from their premises.

"Things happen at work that make people mad: They don't get a raise," explains attorney David Strecker, who is representing the chamber. "If a gun is handy, someone might use it, and that's just something employers don't want to risk."

In a surprise move at a hearing on the law in U.S. Chief District Judge Sven Erik Holmes's Tulsa court Tuesday, Whirlpool withdrew from the case, leaving ConocoPhillips and Williams Cos. to lead the lawsuit. Mr. Johnson, who has joined Rep. Ellis in calling for a boycott of Whirlpool and the other companies involved in the lawsuit, said he believes Whirlpool succumbed to worries it might be punished by pro-gun rights consumers. "People are taking it very, very seriously," he said. "Look at how politicians have suffered when they get on the wrong side of this issue."

Whirlpool responds that it had only been seeking clarification on the law, and that it believes a recent brief by the Oklahoma attorney general gives them the green light to maintain their no-gun policy, resolving their concern. A spokesman for Attorney General Drew Edmonson, however, said he didn't agree with that interpretation. Neither did Steven Broussard, the Tulsa attorney for Conoco and Williams. "We feel that nothing has changed and it's very important for us to get a resolution of this," Mr. Broussard said.

The law remains on hold as the legal dispute unfolds in court.

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Unread 08-03-2005, 02:00 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 460

That's why I said I should keep my mouth shut, I have a terrible habit of speaking my opinion before considering both sides of the argument. What an unfortunate event for those workers that were fired, but the company has a policy that has to be respected. This company had a policy for no weapons in the vicinity of the factory, but what burns me up are the companies that are firing people on the suspicion that they are gun owners or hunters.
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Unread 08-03-2005, 04:14 PM
LB LB is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 423

Yes, but a byproduct of these policies is that rural people, people that work the night shift and their commute to work is just about the only driving they do in the course of the day; these people are effectively disarmed, as they leave the house. That is the real consequence, a blanket company policy has practically disarmed an entire county, except for their bedroom closet.

Besides that, I am opposed to unilateral policy decisions, without input from the workers. The management is not concerned about employee safety. They are worried about law suits and insurance premiums; dollars and cents. This is a misguided employee welfare issue. And, it will come down to what the previous writer has suggested.

Yes, some people will buy into the idea that it is for their own good, rather than exposing it as an infringement of their personal freedom.

With that victory and the backing of a few shortsighted but well meaning pinheads, they will fire the smokers, the spouses of smokers, then hunters and owners of black guns, and those that have "LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINES". Then it's Saturday night specials and what Barbara Boxer calls "junk guns". Soon, spouses of hunters, come under suspicion, as well......... We may neeed to conduct surprise searches of employee's homes to be sure they are in compliance?

get it?

Does the opposition ever yield concessions? Yeah, right. It is all incremental, one small victory after another and the next thing you know, you will be armed with squirt guns. And, some people are sure to feel threatened by squirt guns. Which means that something must be done; even if it's wrong. There is no getting around an irrational gun phobia, short of an outright, complete and total ban on firearms. Japan and England come to mind.

Do not give an inch.

Good hunting. LB
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Unread 08-03-2005, 09:16 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 198

thank you for taking the time to include the article in your post. I tried the links earlier, and ended up falling asleep waiting for them to come up on my dial up. It will be interesting to hear more as the information becomes available. sounds like a lot of he said she said.

If the problem is with conoco/ phillips 66 filing the lawsuit to stop the law that was passed by the state, I back the gun owners 100% If they have a problem with the state laws they can addapt, just like the workers have to adapt to their ever changing environs.
"I am a stone. I do not move. Very slowly, I put snow in my mouth and he won't see my breath. I take my time. . . I have only one bullet. I aim at his eye. Very gently, my finger presses on the trigger. I do not tremble. I have no fear"
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Unread 08-07-2005, 01:15 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas / Oklahoma / Boarder
Posts: 690


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