Here is some info on Richards 300 WSM Varminter. He just e-mailed me some information concerning this topic.
He informed me the Norma 300 WSM Brass is performing very well. He also stated to trim the new brass to about .010, buy doing this it helps keep the pressures down. He also stated that once the new brass has been trimed down at .010, you will not have to trim for a while.
Also, I have talked to a couple of guys who just used their 300 WSM Varminter for the first time this year. They all said they are having no pressrure problems at all.
They also said the rifle has amazing accuracy and kill power out to 1000 yards. One of the guys said, it was unbelievable to watch the 125grn BT hit a Pdog at 800 yards, the destruction of the Pdog was unbelievable. Both fellows said they couldn't believe how flat the bullet shot out to 1000 yards and that the bullet performed well even in the windy conditions.
The same guys have told me they are getting many firings with the Norma Brass and the primer pockets are stayng tight. They stated the Bartlien Barrles, with 1-15 twist, are performing very well.
Richard recommends the 300 WSM Varminter be fitted with the Bartlien barrel, he said they are giving the most consistant velocities and accuracy. He stated his highest velocity with the 300 WSM Varminter was 4025fps with 125grn BT.
As I mentioned before, Richard told me he built about 27, 300 WSM Varminters for 2007. He also informed me, he currently has 30 orders for the 300 WSM Vaminters for 2008.
I was very lucky to get on the list for the 2008 build. Richard has been hunting groundhogs for years, and he informed me the 300 WSM Varminter is his favorite varmint hunting rig for shots out to 1000 yards.
I think all the proof anyone needs to know is, Richard Franklins 300 WSM tight neck Varminter was featured in 6mmBr. com on Accurateshooter.com.
I would say that is strong proof that the man knows what he is doing if these forums are featuring him and his creation. They must know Richard is telling the truth and that his 300 WSM Varminter is performing very well. I am sure they would have not featured this type of info if they thought it was unsafe.
JWP475, you are the one that started this post with the title "What a joke". You are calling Richard a Liar just by your title. Richard has shown the following proof with his 300 WSM Varminter set up:
1. He is getting 4000fps with the 125grn BT.
2. He is getting excellent accuracy. I have seen the photos of the groups and video where he shot an unbeliveable group at 700 yards with the 300 WSM Varminter.
3. He is not seeing any pressure signs as long as the components are correct.
4. The brass is performing and handling the pressures well. Richard also stated the primer pockets are staying tight and he is getting many firings out of the cases.
5. Richard also stated he has built 27 300 WSM Varminters in the last year. All of the customers are reporting unbelievable results with this set up.
6. Richard has been building rifles for many years. I don't think he would lie to accurateshooter.com about one of his rifles and the peformance of the set up.
7. Richard has an excellent reputation for building top notch rifles.
This is all the proof I need, what else do you want.
Why do you want to stste BS in ths first line of your post??? Can you read and if you can are you able to comprehend???
Look ar the POST ORIGINATOR IT I S NOT ME... IT IS BAILELY 1474
"What a joke.... ( 1 2 3)
[QUOTE] by Wildcat
"3. He is not seeing any pressure signs as long as the components are correct."
4000 FPS is no sign of pressurer? WOW I wonder how the bullet is getting out of the barrel?
No where have I Iquestioned the quality of the MANS WORK.... You keep claiming that the pressures are not HIGHER than the SAAMI max of the parrent cartridge),and I ask you to prove that statement and still do.... SHOW THE PRESSURE DATE... The velocity is 400 to 500 FPS higher than any reloading manuel that I have shows, and if you believe that the difference is the twist of 1 in 15 rather than a 1 in 10 twist then that is your OPION and that is all it is...... NO one has shown any proof of the velocity being gotten by any other means than higher than normal pressure
Again any one that can read can plainly see that I did not start this post...Stop the LIE..............
WILDCAT,IF YOU WANT ONE OF THESE RIFLES THEN BY ALMEANS GET ONE,BUT STOP ACCUSSING ME OF SAYING THINGS THAT I HAVE NOT SAID....
You also claim that proof of the cartridge is the fact that it is on a couple of web sites..Go you remember when Lane Simpson created the widcat 7mm STW?? The loads that he published he claimed to within SAAMI pressure standards,because he saw no signs on the brass to indicate excesses pressure...Once the cartridge become a factory chambering the loads that he was recomending are no longer listed as the pressure testing proved them to be high pressure...
AGIN WILDCAT I DID NOT START THIS THREAD...............UNDERSTAND..........
range it,check the wind, dial in correction, aim and only one shot
jwp475, I apoloogize for saying you started the post.
Yes, I can read very well, and you are calling Richard a Liar. Can you apologize like I did to you.
Also, of course there is pressure you idiot, I know that.
Why don't you debate Bountyhunter, he has been proving you wrong the hole time. I think calling someone a liar, when they can't defend themselves, is BS BS BS. At least you could apoplogize.
First off you can't read because I haven't called any body a liar...I have an opion and that is it until there is any pressure testing done that is all that any body has is an opion...
I don't want to debate anyone about this if you stop making post accussing me of calling the man a liar,I will not respond to this thread at all....
Again I have an opion and that is it in no way is my opion calling any one a liar.....If my opion is proven wrong then I will have learned something new until then Leave me out of this Bull Sh!t
No where in this entire thread did I say that he did not get 4000 FPS with the 300 WSM and 125 grain bullets (I assume that the velocity was chron'ed therefore have not questioned the velocity)....NOWHERE.....WHat I said was that I do not think that this velocity is possiable without being above the 65,000 PSI thress hold...ONCE AGAIN THIS IS MY OPION...Without pressure testing my opion and anyone dissagreeing with my opion is still just an opion.....NOTHING MORE THAN AN OPION... Can you grasp that???
Since you want one of these so bad I urge you to get it............
range it,check the wind, dial in correction, aim and only one shot
Alright, lets look at my main point here, For the sake of simplifying this debate, lets say you can get 4000 fps with a 125 gr 30 cal BT out a speicific rifle. That will take that out of the debate.
So we have a 4000 fps 125 gr Ballistis Tip which is being said to have extreme varminting performance at long range, no, at 1000 yards.
My main point throughout the entire debate has been, "It is far easier to hit a small target at long range with a high BC bullet at moderate velocity then with a lightweight, hyper velocity bullet when the down range conditions are unknow."
THis is not opinion, this is fact. Let me offer some numbers.
Say you see a chuck sitting on a nice rock sunning himself at a measured 1000 yards. At your shooting location, you can not feel any wind at all but you notice that there is some wind down range at the target and estimate it at 10 mph.
I will list the windage needed for each round and you can decide for your self which is better in each situation as far as hitting your target:THis is comparing a 300 WSM/125 gr BT @ 4000 fps to a 7mm RUM/120 gr BT @3800 fps and a 7mm AM/200 gr ULD RBBT at 3350
Now if your estimate of the wind is dead on you will hit with each chambering. If you are off, you will miss, to what degree you will miss will be determined by the effect the wind has on each bullet. Obviously the 300 WSM is pretty anemic in the wind at 1K.
Lets look at retained velocity which is what makes a bullet expand. Now I have tested the Ballistic Tips for expansion down to as low as 1300 fps at extended ranges. Anything mych under 1600 fps will not produce full expansion with the 30 cal BT or any other BT unless its a varmint BT which the 125 gr BT is not I believe. ANyway, lets look at the retained velocity:
Again, the 300 is on the bottom of the pile and at the bottom end of getting any bullet expansion at all.
Bullet drop is not a concern to me as its easy and predictable to comp for. Bullet energy is also not a huge concern for varmint hunting but it is critical in making a bullet perform on varmint type animals. No velocity and no retained energy means no bullet expansion.
So while if you compare this 300 WSM combo to say a 22-250 with a 55 gr Ballistic Tip at 1000 yards, yes you have an impressive performing round in comparision.
If you compare it to a real long range rifle, there is simply no comparision in any way.
I am honestly suprised that he decided to make the 300 WSM his baby. The 7mm WSM with the 120 gr Ballistic Tip would have been a much more impressive number at long range offering same velocity potential in comparision to the 300 WSM, at least within 100 fps with a much better BC for better down range numbers.
Again, taking away the arguement that 4000 fps is a wise thing to do in a WSM, and getting back to the point in hand, hitting small targets at extended range in unknown down range conditions, the combo you two are talking about is a weak performer compared to legit long range chamberings loaded for the task at hand.
You can say its a varmint rifle all you want, fact is hitting the target is the only thing that matters and that is much easier with a higher BC bullet even if it is driven to dramatically slower velocity. The numbers do not blow smoke, neither does field testing which is where the real proof comes from.
I do not know where this smith is based in, but here in Montana, if you want to shoot 1000 yards, you better have a wind beater in your hands and 300 WSM is certainly not that in any way.
It is not hard at all to get a conventional round to cut the 300 WSM/4000 fps/125 gr BT combos wind drift at least in half with the use of the proper bullets.
This was what everyone was trying to tell Wildcat when he asked over and over about what would be best for varminting at long range.
Forget about bullet performance, its hitting the target that is critical, any bullet larger then 270 will easily and instantly stop a varmint even the size of a yote if the bullet hit the right spot.
Anyway, my main point stands, its just easier to hit a small target down range in unknown shooting conditions with high BC bullets. IF you were building a rifle for that speicfic purpose, why would you build a rifle that would simply "work" when you could build a rifle that would excell!!!
That was my original point other then my opinion 4000 fps is pushing the 300 WSM harder then I would ever recommend to my customers.
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