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A Question for all Hunters

 
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  #15  
Old 08-11-2004, 11:08 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sub-Saharan Africa
Posts: 3
Re: A Question for all Hunters

I’ve been following this thread with interest, and on the whole, find the replies quite funny, and typical of hunters that have all the knowledge, and none of the experience.

You can clearly distinguish deer hunters from all others by their complaints about bad guides, lying outfitters, no hot water on tap, lack of comfortable accommodation, food, and most of all, their desire for a cheap hunt. Typical!

The only thing that no-one has complained about, (probably because it’s too embarrassing), is that the outfitter didn’t deliver the poor animal right into your lap without messing up your fancy suit.

How about tracking an African elephant for 31 days, sleeping in the veldt, being stung by scorpions, sucked dry by mosquitoes, with nothing but maize porridge for breakfast, lunch and dinner, with no early morning coffee, no cold beer, and certainly no Jack Daniels to clear the dust clotting your throat?

Watching your guide on day 17, with nothing to tell who’s suffered the most, you or him, and whether or not to call it quits and bring this madness to an end?

Eventually, on the 31st day, when I shot the animal, I couldn’t be bothered, or care less, about the weight of those beautiful tusks that I’d first seen on day 5, while observing the animal, far out of range.

I have been hunting in the most remote parts of sub-Saharan Africa for most of my life, and stopped collecting trophies many moons ago. I still partake in this sport on a regular basis though, because I love it so much.

Having read all the funny remarks, obviously mostly from Americans, I cannot help but appreciate the foresight of our Creator, as he obviously knew very well who to put where on earth.

C’mon you sissies, show some balls and put your money where your mouth is! Once you’ve hunted in Africa consistently for at least 5 years, you’ll have gained enough experience to call yourselves hunters, and to appreciate the fact that your outfitter stuck a cold beer in your hand in the middle of the Kalahari desert with the temperatures soaring into the 40’s. Never mind the fact that you didn’t have your “usual” breakfast of bacon and eggs and little pork sausages.

For many of the above reasons, it is unlawful in most of Africa to let loose these sissies on their own, as they would be dead within 48 hours. Because of this, they are provided with a Professional Hunter to make sure that they get to the airport in one piece.

It’s no fun to find out that you’ve been tracking yourself for 10 days in the bush if you don’t know what you were doing, and then join the statistics with so many others who have become an easy meal for a lion, or a late afternoon snack for a hungry hyena.

Still, maybe I have exaggerated a bit, and you guys are not that bad, but surely you’ll have to agree that hunters such as Hemingway, Ruark, Selous, and of late; Peter Hathaway Capstick, are not around anymore. Even myself, I consider part of a dying breed.

The true value of sport hunting cannot be measured by the “luxuries” that have become so much part of a modern generation. Trust me; it is the experience, which has no monetary value, which by the end of the day, as you sit quietly contemplating your memoirs, will ultimately remain. Not the “humorous” guide who had to listen to your nonsense, including the past experiences which, in an African context, suddenly become meaningless.

I just thought that I’d offer a different perspective on the whole issue. I trust that you will take it in the spirit in which it’s intended.

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Regards
PH
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2004, 12:06 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 70
Re: A Question for all Hunters

No offence Prohunter, but how hard is it to track an Elephant...i mean realy?
Furthermore, if you couldn't careless about the trophie, why kill such a magestic beast?
Oh, and have you ever heard of a little place called Darwin?...no well, its 40 degrees there about as regulary as The Springbock loose at Rugby.
I trust that you will take it in the spirit in which it’s intended.


Just my 2 cents
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2004, 12:55 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Re: A Question for all Hunters

ProHunter - Is that moniker mean your are for hunting or you are a PH?
Rereading the posts before you I believe all respondants to the initial enquiry have put forward reasonable expectations.
I would like you to consider a few points here; look at my personal qualifications and maybe answer a few of my queries?
1. Seeing as you are living in Africa according to your profile you must be aware that times have changed since the times of Selous and even Taylor.Hunting area boundaries; National boundaries are just 2 that preclude the old style wanderings.
I would guess that your 31 day hunt was quite a long time ago?
2. By the time most people can afford an African hunt they are no longer in the prime of their fitness window. With this in mind the prime motivator is not how physical demanding the hunt will be.
3.Personally these are holidays and I expect some creature comforts such as my "cold beer and hot showers" mentioned in my earlier post.
4.One of the greatest motivators for my African hunts was the opportunity for exceptional wildlife viewing presented within the big game areas. I was quite happy to spend 10 days without firing a shot in these conditions because without exception there would be a unique experience to discuss around the campfire each evening.
5.As previously stated I have travelled to Zimbabwe and RSA on 6 ocassions probably totalling 8 months of hunting. Twice I have self guided and 4 times with PH with each trip involving Cape Buffalo as well Elephant on 2 of the 6.
6. I still hunt annually with a group of friends here in Australia in Cape York.This is one of our "last frontiers". The temps there in September can also reach 40C and we hunt similiarly to a lot of the African hunting - 4WD and walking - average about 10 miles per day walking. Sadly we do not have any "big game" to view and our quarry is feral pigs. In contrast to Africa we expect to account for at least a dozen pigs per day.
7.Well ProHunter if you are still with me at this point - how about a little more background? Where exactly is sub-saharan? where are you currently hunting? and what species? How long ago was the 31 day Elephant hunt? If you are a PH then obviously you have the horror client stories but I will bet there have been more good clients than the opposite! Most serious hunters I have met worldwide have been very polite and helpful.
Well - got that off my chest and hope you see my reasoning.
8.Or is this simply a "windup" - I note that this was your first post!
APB

[ 08-12-2004: Message edited by: aussie powder burner ]

[ 08-12-2004: Message edited by: aussie powder burner ]
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2004, 12:55 AM
LB LB is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 423
Re: A Question for all Hunters

What was that spirit, as intended? Excuse me partner, but you sound like a total jerk. LB

(PH, eh? yeah, right)
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  #19  
Old 08-12-2004, 03:19 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South Africa
Posts: 7
Re: A Question for all Hunters

ProHunter--

With all due respect to a fellow countryman, I have to say that I think you've got the wrong slant on this.

If you've been following this thread, you should have seen that in my original post, I specifically asked these folks to mention all the FACTORS that affect their hunting experience, and everything that they, as paying customers, expect from an outfitter in order to feel that they've gotten the best experience possible.

They've been most helpful, and their comments and suggestions have given me a lot of food for thought. I haven't percieved them to be complaining in any way, just telling me what makes for a good trip, and what they should legitimately get for their money.

Surely they are entitled to a certain minimum if they're expected to shell out hard-earned cash?

And what better way to ensure it than to ask them directly what they expect that minimum to be.

As Aussie said, this kind of expedition is a holiday for these folks. Why shouldn't they have the good time that holidays imply?

--Umzingeli

[ 08-12-2004: Message edited by: Umzingeli ]
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2004, 05:43 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,369
Re: A Question for all Hunters

Come on Guy's, he's pulling our leg (a bit).


Prohunter, we can take a little ribbing now and again but I'll reply a bit too. Just to let you know we're regular folks.


I’ve been following this thread with interest, and on the whole, find the replies quite funny, and typical of hunters that have all the knowledge, and none of the experience.

I assume you mean African experience and if so you're correct on my part, never been there. I have plans to go and take my wife along (she's pretty tough for an American (U.S. American vice Canadian American or Mexican American or Central American, etc)). Some of the replies could be quite funny I guess in retrospect but they're not too funny when a deer or bear guide shows up and he's obviously been recently recruited from a chow line in the nearest town and we end up with a liability rather than an assistant. And talk about good info some of these Johnny-come-lately's offer, whew!!! "You can tell a big bear because it can't climb a tree!" Well, let me run through the bush treeing every bear I come across and shoot the reluctant ones. It was sort of funny to hear at the time [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img].


You can clearly distinguish deer hunters from all others by their complaints about bad guides, lying outfitters, no hot water on tap, lack of comfortable accommodation, food, and most of all, their desire for a cheap hunt. Typical!

We covered a bit about bad guides, they do happen. One thing I'm (and others I know) are not interested in is a cheap hunt. Can't stand being around a less money is everything person. Sign me up for a $15,000 hunt over a $10,000 hunt anytime, heard too many horror stories about "cheap" hunts. As long as the accomodations for me are the same as for the guide(s) and outfitter (if he/she is around) I'm in tall cotton. A little forewarning might be in order though so I don't bring my three piece suit on a camp out.


The only thing that no-one has complained about, (probably because it’s too embarrassing), is that the outfitter didn’t deliver the poor animal right into your lap without messing up your fancy suit.

Like you, I've heard folks complain when they don't get a critter. I guess they figure the money is for the critter and not the hunt and opportunity to get a critter and I can somewhat see that for some folks as it's a once-in-a-lifetime deal for some.


How about tracking an African elephant for 31 days, sleeping in the veldt, being stung by scorpions, sucked dry by mosquitoes, with nothing but maize porridge for breakfast, lunch and dinner, with no early morning coffee, no cold beer, and certainly no Jack Daniels to clear the dust clotting your throat?

whooo-hooo, sign me up! I seen that movie, it was with a little Bushman maned Gao and Dolph Lundgren... ooops maybe not. Not a problem, let's go but let me know ahead of time this is a possibility so I can pack some sun screen and mosquito repellant, no scorpion stuff here so I'd need a hand-up on that.


Watching your guide on day 17, with nothing to tell who’s suffered the most, you or him, and whether or not to call it quits and bring this madness to an end?

Eventually, on the 31st day, when I shot the animal, I couldn’t be bothered, or care less, about the weight of those beautiful tusks that I’d first seen on day 5, while observing the animal, far out of range.

I have been hunting in the most remote parts of sub-Saharan Africa for most of my life, and stopped collecting trophies many moons ago. I still partake in this sport on a regular basis though, because I love it so much.


This was with Dolph Lundgren and Regopstaan as Gao the Bushman.

Having read all the funny remarks, obviously mostly from Americans, I cannot help but appreciate the foresight of our Creator, as he obviously knew very well who to put where on earth.

C’mon you sissies, show some balls and put your money where your mouth is! Once you’ve hunted in Africa consistently for at least 5 years, you’ll have gained enough experience to call yourselves hunters, and to appreciate the fact that your outfitter stuck a cold beer in your hand in the middle of the Kalahari desert with the temperatures soaring into the 40’s. Never mind the fact that you didn’t have your “usual” breakfast of bacon and eggs and little pork sausages.


That "hunters" remark hurt, we're hunters too. We only hunt the safe critters though, nothing dangerous... Wouldn't want to lose an eye or anything and surely wouldn't want to be carried back home in a 5-gallon bucket after a "stick and stomp" session, that's what PH's are for!


For many of the above reasons, it is unlawful in most of Africa to let loose these sissies on their own, as they would be dead within 48 hours. Because of this, they are provided with a Professional Hunter to make sure that they get to the airport in one piece.

A little lighter in the wallet and longer on tall tales no doubt! I believe we could get along for a while. BTW, how fast can you run??? I'm kinda a slow runner and if you're pretty fast I can see I'll need extra bullets to defend myself from maurading hyenas, lions, hippos, scorpions, tokoloshi and whatever else shows up.


It’s no fun to find out that you’ve been tracking yourself for 10 days in the bush if you don’t know what you were doing, and then join the statistics with so many others who have become an easy meal for a lion, or a late afternoon snack for a hungry hyena.

Still, maybe I have exaggerated a bit, and you guys are not that bad, but surely you’ll have to agree that hunters such as Hemingway, Ruark, Selous, and of late; Peter Hathaway Capstick, are not around anymore. Even myself, I consider part of a dying breed.


Teller of tall tales, Peter Hathaway Capstick, good stories but how many we're true (or near true). How about that hippo attack, wasn't that Valerie and Ron Taylor that happened to??


The true value of sport hunting cannot be measured by the “luxuries” that have become so much part of a modern generation. Trust me; it is the experience, which has no monetary value, which by the end of the day, as you sit quietly contemplating your memoirs, will ultimately remain. Not the “humorous” guide who had to listen to your nonsense, including the past experiences which, in an African context, suddenly become meaningless.

I just thought that I’d offer a different perspective on the whole issue. I trust that you will take it in the spirit in which it’s intended.



I take it that you offered this in good spirit, odd and sort of sharp. Stick around, have fun and take care because we get grumpy sometimes too.
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  #21  
Old 08-13-2004, 12:52 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sub-Saharan Africa
Posts: 3
Re: A Question for all Hunters

Dear Mr King,
Well done. Being a man of integrity, I have to come clean on this one.

Yes, you’re quite right, I have been a bit rough on the guys, but on the other hand,
Having considered the replies to the simple question of what the hunter expects of an outfitter, I thought it would be good to throw a cat amongst the pigeons.

I must have achieved my objective, as with few exceptions including yourself, no-one have really replied to my baiting.

The point is that, in reality, each and every hunting region in the world has its own special character, and as such, one cannot really compare and generalise. Having said this, I don’t think that there is any argument that southern Africa, with all its uniqueness, must rate as the best hunting destination on offer. If this is so, and it is, I wish that every sport hunter, could, somehow or other make it to this part of the world, as above all else, it provides the supreme hunting experience. Any full-blooded hunter will, at the end of his days, surely regret it, if he has not hunted here.

However, there are some issues which I would like to air, not as an outfitter, and not as a PH, but as a lover of this great sport.

Firstly, there are great concerns as to the lack of competitiveness in the southern African hunting tourism industry compared to other destinations world-wide. The pressing questions related to competitive pricing MUST be addressed in the near future if the collective industry wishes to increase its slice of international hunters.

Second, the industry will have to revisit its marketing strategies as the fundamental principle to underpin and contribute towards common interests and prosperity. The promotion and packaging of southern Africa as a hunting destination of distinction is diffused and fragmented, as it is conducted solely on the basis of self-interest.

Thirdly, in a modern commercial environment, the short-comings which I mention above primarily create an environment which permits fraudulent practices. This is a major concern, not only with the majority of service providers within the industry, but primarily amongst the most important group sustaining that industry, i.e. international hunting clients.

In defence however, I must say that the industry has excelled in the upgrading and delivery of “export-quality” infrastructure. There is no doubt that in the process, excellent hunting destinations have been developed that comfortably compete with the best in the world.

Equally, there has been a noticeable improvement in client services delivery, in both travel and tourism, and in the hunting tourism industry. The warm hospitality and traditional African friendliness has been raised to a level where it has become world-renowned.

On that note, I wish to extend an invitation to hunters world-wide to make the effort to come to southern Africa, for what I'’ sure would prove to be their ultimate hunting experience. Maybe, just maybe, I will have the privilege of meeting all of them, at which opportunity I will beg forgiveness in person for my initial “rudeness”.

To you Dave, there is a special invitation, as you make no secret of your desire to hunt this magnificent land. I too think we’ll get on just fine.

And you don’t have to worry about the running; I’m a big man, and the only thing that puts a spring in my step these days, is a wounded buffalo rising at my feet, in which case, I’m sure you’ll be right beside me [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Wombat--I'm afraid my reply to you must wait till after the weekend, perhaps I'll have to eat humble pie, and perhaps you will.

Regards
PH
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