Want to increase my knowledge base on the reaction to bullet impact - depending on location, systems hit.
Interested to know what you guys look for, what you feel are reactions to bullet hits on:
..nervous system - brain, spine
..respiratory system - lungs, oesophagus (Spelling?)
..circulatory system - heart, major blood vessels
..skeletal system - legs, shoulder only, hip only
..digestive system - also known as gut shots
What do you look for or have seen re classic chest shot, head-on shot, rear-ender, raking shots.
I have seen deer and caribou stand-up on their hind legs and flip over backward from a heart shot, stuff like that.
Please mention any pertinent info, critter, cartridge, distance, reaction, blood trail or lack of. Any big game species.
Dave King, not just BANG-FLOP, we don't all shoot as deadly as you do [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Ian I have a few.
Most spine shots I have seen usualy end up with bang flop but I have seen a few that dropped and then regained their footing in either the front or rear and tried to push or pull themselves to cover.
Heart lung shots have been run of the mill jump kick or kinda stumble a little then either fall there or run a little. I did have one that sat down as if he was taking a break then his head followed his hind end to the ground.
The onside shoulder shots that only hit that one shoulder was like a flinch and then either falling there or a medium pace retreat as his front end went further down until he plowed a small streak of ground with his chin.
Every gut shot I have seen has been back bowing up kinda like he was punched in the stomach and then a weird can't make up their mind which way they want to go run. ( zig zag style )
Thats all I can remember for now.
Sorry Ian I forgot to list that these were all whitetail deer from N.C averaging 100 pounds for a couple of does up to around 175 for the largest buck. I have more but don't have time to go into great detail now but will try to elaborate more on some other shots I have seen.
Guns and ammo, what more do we need?
..respiratory system - lungs, oesophagus (Spelling?) <font color="blue">Instant drop - instant kill </font>
..circulatory system - heart, major blood vessels <font color="blue">White Tail Doe 25yds 54 Cal ML - Hit juggler veins both sides. Deer just bedded down. No exterior bleeding. Walked up to it,it was though I wasn't there. Figured it all out when I did the skinning. Strangest experience I've ever had.
Young bull moose. Perfect heart shot (removed heart from all connecting piping)60 yds. Complete penetration. NO, I mean No reaction what ever. It just walked off. </font>
..skeletal system - legs, shoulder only, hip only <font color="blue">No Experience on this one </font>
..digestive system - also known as gut shots <font color="blue">Initial symptom is the sinking feeling ya get when it sounds like you hit a melon. Deer humps up. Gets sick and if not pressured will lay down and will be hard to brush out. </font>
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I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
Hello Ian A couple of deer seasons ago my friends dad flushed a big white tail doe out of some scrub. The deer was shot with a .270 and a 130 gr bullet. Any way this deer after having both her lungs torn to shreds by that bullet ran about 40 yards like nothing happened. She went to jump a fence on the pasture land across from us she died in mid air and just came skidding to a stop on the pasture.
Great information, please keep it coming. By far the worst situation for me is when you are not sure of a hit, absolutely no reaction, sometimes the whump is hidden by the noise of the shot - yet the shot broke clean and you should have placed the bullet well. Apparently a variable is just how revved-up the critter is, is he aware of you, is he calmly feeding or chewing his cud, is he running like a raped-ape and heading for the next county, is he P'd-off and coming for you.
white tail 100 to 150 weight
head shot base of ear 200gr xtp drop like a rock no movement.
neck shot right front 140gr 270 took out 8" of neck bone bullet recovered on opposity sholder just under the skin, deer flopped and rolled over 3 or4 times it was stiff legged.
gut shot no reaction, 140gr 270 little blood almost gave up, tracked the deer for about a mile. head shot did it in.
double lung shot 200yrs. with 200gr. xtp drag right front leg was ony indication it was hit. ran about 100yrs and laid down head shot to finish it off.
12ga 1oz slug at 50 yd. double lung shot same as above just drag the right leg and ran abut 75 yrs before it piled up dead.
25/06 100grbt sholder heart shot 65yrd fliped and rolled up under a hedge.
rear shot left ham with a 130gr bt 270 blew off the leg deer wend down but was trying to drag its self off, ended with a head shot.
130gr Bt 270 high sholder spine shot almost blew the deer in half it spun around and expired
12ga 1oz slug from tree. slug entered high right behind sholder and broke opposite sholder, deer went right down his right leg was going back and foward like he was trying to run.
25/05 100bt at 40yds lung heart shot. deer ran straight at me with a slight lean tail down ran 50yrs and piled up kicked a couple times and was done
is this what you are looking for?
I agree with everyone else's observation and add two of mine that are different.
OK Two stories
Infamous Scapula Hydrostatic shock story
Back in 1980, a friend and I set up in the dark on a ridge line about 600 yards away from another ridge line that was being used by a herd of about 5-6 mule deer bucks. I had a 7mm Wby with over max load and 162 gr HPBT match bullet running around 3100-3200 fps. He had a 7mm Rem Mag with 145gr Speer. Contrary deer were not on their ridge line but ours and worse yet they were at the bottom of the rock face we were on. Instead of the shot being 600 yds it was 30 yds and at a 45 degree downward angle. We each picked out a deer and fired together and both deer went down immediately. His was dead, but mine got up and ran off. We tracked it for about half a mile to a mile and my friend finally got a shot through the trees at it running and killed it. Inspection revealed the following:
The thin skinned, high BC match bullet had produced a crater on the scapula about two inches deep and twelve inches in diameter. It had not broken the scapula nor had any fragments penetrated into the chest cavity. The extreme force of the bullet disintegration had very nearly cauterized the wound and there was only minimal blood loss. You can make the calculation but this was over 3000 ft # of hydrostatic energy applied and it only caused the deer to fall down. This was only a medium sized deer ( western 3 point or eastern 6 point). You will notice in all of my posts on bullets that I always recommend having a close range bullet in the chamber and then switching to your long range bullet. This was a very gruesome episode that I do not wish to ever repeat.
HOW BUFFALOBOB GOT HIS NAME
About three weeks after the above incident, I went down to the Four Corners area hunting wild buffalo in the Henry Mountains. I was one of twenty five people who had drawn a permit to hunt Utahís wild buffalo herd. Loaded up the 7mm wby with 175 partitions and as much powder as I could get in the case and survive the ignition. Probably about 3000 fps and about 3400# of energy. Gun was scoped with a Redfield 6X18 w/ double stadia rangefinder.
The hunt was supposed to be just drive around in your truck and pick out the one you want to shoot,but it was hot and the buffalo were in the trees so it was down and dirty regular hunting (really fun). So after about 5 days I finally see a pair at the edge of a chaining. I ease down the ridge line through the pinyons and come out about 50 yds from them. Both are bulls and one is massive. I am not afraid of much in the world but he was so big that I looked around to see if there was a tree I could climb because I suddenly had a feeling that I did not have enough gun. Plus, I had a single shot and he had his buddy with him. Being nothing, if not determined, I kneeled down and slide the safety off and tried to put the cross hairs on his shoulder. Well at a minimum setting of six power at 50 yds I could not hardly find anything in the scope except dark brown hair. Eased my finger onto the Ruger #1ís trigger which was down to about 6-8 ounces and let him have a 175 gr partition right behind the shoulder. He quit eating grass and looked at me. His friend turned around and looked at me. I could not see blood or anything, so I eased another round into the chamber and went through the exercise of trying to find an aiming point and pulled the trigger again. This time he took two steps forward and continued to look at me. The young bull jumped and ran up the slope about 10-15 yds and stopped. There was still no sign of any blood or evidence that I had even hit him so I was very confused. After about a minute, I took another round out of my pocket and put it in the chamber. I went through the whole exercise of trying to pick a good aiming point but the six power scope at 50 yds was just giving me fits and I finally fired a third time. He took on more step this time angling a little so he was no longer broad side. His buddy jumps and runs again but in a semi circle and is now back at about 40 yards snorting and pawing the dirt and just acting very bad. I only have one permit and can not afford to shoot him so I take a round out of my pocket and find a nice rock in front of and under the young bulls nose and shoot the rock. It explodes and the young bull starts bucking around like crazy but does not run off. The old bull is still standing there very still. I find another rock near the young bull and shoot it. The old bull just stands there and the young bull bucks around again and runs off to maybe 70 yards. I reach into my pocket and count the number of bullets I have left and get this sinking feeling in my stomach because there are not many in there. About this time blood starts to run out of the old bulls nose so I am encouraged that I must have been getting into the chest cavity and I shoot him again. And he still stands there. The young bull is still up on the ridge acting stupid so I explode another rock on him and he departs. The old bull has blood just pouring out of his nose and is obviously done for and I am feeling bad about him standing there suffering so with one of my last few bullets I shoot him again even though I hate shooting animals very many times. This time he falls over and dies.
Inspection reveals first four bullets penetrate through the chest cavity including lungs and one even cuts a groove through the outside of the heart. Fifth bullet penetrates the lungs and breaks the far side shoulder. All five bullets were recovered under the far side hide. All five bullets exhibited classic Nosler partition mushroom. Total energy absorbed by the buffalo was around 17,000 ft pounds. While green the horns missed Boone and Crocket by 1.25 points. This bull stood there for over five minutes and maybe up to ten without flinching or anything with the muzzle blast and impact of a fairly substantial gun.