Which Muzzleloader is best for the money??

[Jimm]

Bh,

777 pellets one year ago ....... bullets touching at 100, same box this fall ..............bullets touching at 100 yds.

50cal Knight disc stainless . Decided to to check it out for the LR game this fall .
same box ( rapidly being depleted ) of 777 pellets produced 2.5 to 3" groups at 300 with a very consistent 2066 avg velo. I must admit that 150 grs ( 3 pells ) kicks the ever loving snot out of you but hey ! it's for hunting [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I realize that this may not be and probably isn't common exp with a off the shelf ml but I am glad to have a gotten a " Shooter ' opposed to a " lemon ' fo once [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Just my exp , jim

[MarkA]

[ QUOTE ]
Mark; That Savage does look hard to beat for accuracy. That group is better than a lot of the locals can do with their HI-Power centerfire rifles.
Ian M; I wonder if this Savage was by chance 1 of the 38 you tested?? Thanks again.

[/ QUOTE ]

This Savage ML was the test gun that Cecil Epps of Precision Rifle Bullet (prbullet.com) first tested with his bullets.
Had about 250 rounds thru when I bought from him. He had bedded it and adjusted the accutrigger, other than that it is stock. Has about 3000 rounds (hot rounds) thru it now.

PS it never shot the Precision Bullets as well as the Hornady 250 gr SST shot in the group posted.

[Ian M]

fourinone,
Did the book before the Savage came on the scene. I believe that the current Savage in-lines are pretty good rifles, much better than the initial design. Savage is right in there with T/C and Green Mtn for making accurate barrels. I shot a guys brand new Encore a while back at one hundred yards 3 pellets did a group that went inside 0.5". Might have been a total fluke but did it that day in front of a few witnesses. Have been on lots of T/C factory hunts were the rifles we shot went inside one inch right out of the box, same for the old Knights with Tony.

DistantFoe, I went with a company called SMI. www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com is the website.

They build smokeless ML on the New England Firearms actions. I bought a used Pardner Shotgun for $85 to send them. They will put a 28" douglas barrel on for $319 plus $60 for a choate stock and $8 for a piece to fix the cocking hammer so you can cock it with a scope on.

They have been selling them since 1984. Long before Savage.
There a few other companies as well; New Ultra Light Arms (NULA), SwingLock, and BadBull. I heard bad reviews about the BadBulls, plus they are $3000 each. The Nula is supposed to be amazing I believe it has a Mcmillian Stock and you can get a Timney or Jewell Trigger. They are around $1100. I haven't heard anything about swinglock.

What I liked about the SMI is that you can shoot rifle bullets and it will cost me less than a savage.

If your going to shoot an inline it makes no sense to not go smokeless. It's legal in most states and you can shoot triple 7 or the other crap if it not legal. My Knight shoots pyrodex the best and it is the worst stuff to deal with so I'm going smokeless.

Remember, its still a muzzleloader and your not going to get 1/4" groups. If you can get less than an inch your doing great.

[fourinone]

Thanks Ian M and thanks again to the rest of you who have added to this topic. You men are even more help than I would have ever guessed on this topic. Many Thanks!!

[edge]

IMO, the Savage is a great rifle. The SMI conversions get great reviews too.

Go Smokeless, you can always shoot the dirty stuff if you want to. You can't do the reverse with a non-smokeless ML!

Smokeless can also be much cheaper to shoot since you are using real powder and Hodgdon can't corner the market.

You can tailer your load to almost any velocity and recoil that you can bear. If you want to plink with a cheap 250 XTP at 2,000 fps or shoot an Elk with a 300 grain Barnes bullet at 2500 fps these are available from the Savage.

If you have questions there is a very friendly group of Savage addicts at :

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage

edge.

[Ian M]

Guys,
Smokeless has not gone over the way that some companies hoped, therefore Knight, T/C, Traditions and CVA are not rushing smokeless rifles to the market. Believe me, they all looked at it and decided against it for safety reasons, and so far the market is just not demanding it. Will it stay, probably but not likely to increase much or it would have shown signs of doing so by now. Might be wrong.

As I see it smokeless is for guys who do not want to be bothered with extensive cleaning and the rust concerns of the past (recent smokeless substitutes have significantly reduced these concerns) and guys who are looking to push the envelope. I shoot with factory guys who are interested in pushing our confident shooting distances but we are staying with Pyrodex and 777. Have 300 yards accuracy fairly good, now to move to 350. Do we need it? About the same challenge as shooting out at 550 -600 yards with a good .308 rifle or longer with a magnum.

Please don't forget where muzzleloading came from - 300 yards is a good challenge but so is getting in to 15 yards with a flinter. My heart beats way faster when I am in close, one blink can blow it. Sometimes it is good to take a step backwards instead of foreward.