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LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

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Unread 03-13-2004, 09:48 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,369
LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

It's been several years now that Long Range Hunting has been in existance and for this I am greatful. This is a site where somewhat like minded folks can come and discuss hunting and "pushing the envelope" on range a bit.

As many of you know we are under close scrutiny from within the hunting community and certainly from those on the outside of the hunting "sport(s)". I and others have long been aware of this scrutiny and take into consideration our public presentation and consider the views of others as a natural part of discussion and public appearance. Stewardship is a burden we must accept, it is part of society.

With the restructuring of the LRH site I elected to omit the Ultra Long Range Hunting section, there are several reasons for this;

First is that there have been very few threads there in a long while that have directly pertained to ULR methods.

Secondly, although the PBfLR video series shows folks and methods that are a part of the LRH society it does not reflect well on the community as a whole IMHO. The last in the series of three (3) being the greater problem for me personally. Far too many rounds fired onto one critter for me to consider it depicting "hunting". This method is by me more thought of as Ultra Long Range Hunting

Thirdly,... and I could go on but I wont.

Point is... Someone needs to stand up and say "I'll take responsibilty for my sport and try to foster support and correctness." I call it stewardship, we must be stewards of this sport and draw a line stating "This is too far afield for me to accept as "good" for the group as a whole."

I know there are others that feel the same as I do and I know there are those that will disagree. I have made a stand and stated my opinion.


Edited for spelling.

[ 03-13-2004: Message edited by: Dave King ]
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Unread 03-13-2004, 10:51 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757
Re: LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

Sorry to hear you have decided to eleminate the Ultra Longrange section.

I guess it's OK to everyone in the anti-hunting ranks to keep all shots "under" 700 or 800 yards?

What is the acceptable yardage range that don't offend others and give our sport a bad name?

DC [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
Darryl Cassel
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Unread 03-13-2004, 11:08 AM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 82
Re: LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

I have also given this topic a lot of thought as we show long range shots on our TV show (The Best of the West). We were concerned that we would get negative response from the hunting community and were prepared for some.

I should define long range shots as shot from 400 yds – 800 yds. The furthest shot we have shown was a 742 yd elk and we have quite a few 500 yds – 600 yds shots. All are one shot kills. We are airing a predator hunting show that will have a coyote shot at 1078 but the shooter missed his first two shots but made a one shot kill on shot #3.

We have received a lot of emails but the only negative has been from complete anti hunters. Everything else has been very positive and I think that is because we don’t try any shots we are not relatively sure we can make.

I have seen a lot of shooters in field conditions and have never seen anyone who could reliably hit game, in the right place, at ranges over 800 yds with the first shot. I know it has been done many, many times in the past but just because you do it once or twice does not mean you can do it on demand.

I have never seen the videos Dave refers to but I feel uncomfortable with the idea of multiple hits on an animal shown on video. One thing that is hard to understand is the different sense of time between watching a video “in cold blood” and actually being there . When we edit video we sometimes have to shorten the kill sequence because when your adrenaline is not flowing time goes much slower. This change in perception from real life to video is just one of many aspects a good editor allows for when building a TV show or video.

The above is not a condemnation of anyone else’s video efforts, it's just the way we try and do our stuff. If we try and censor someone else’s efforts then we must accept another group will censor us because I know our show offends the anti hunter and probably some hunters.

In the end I guess I am saying I don’t like people shooting at ranges they are not capable of properly hitting the game they are shooting at and I like the idea of showing it on video even less but I will defend their right to do it as long as it is legal.
John Burns
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Unread 03-13-2004, 11:22 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757
Re: LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

I somewhat agree with your thoughts on the longer yardage kills on animals if your trying for a first round out of the barrel shot.

That's exactly why we take a spotter shot first (away from the animal and at the same range) to make all our final scope corrctions and then kill the animal on the "next" single shot.

With the correct rifle, equipment and set-up, and with a good hunting partner, the animals can be killed with the "first" and only hit at a "lot further" then 800 yards.

Some are able to do it with the 1st shot out of the barrel, as you mentioned.

DC [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Darryl Cassel
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Unread 03-13-2004, 01:35 PM
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,518
Re: LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

Actually, the decision to eliminate the Ultra forum (along with the Competition forum) was mine with Ian and Dave's agreement. I have no problem with that method of hunting being used competently and responsibly by others. I feel confident that Darryl and his small group of friends do it about as well as it can be done and I admire their skill. But it's not something I care to promote any longer on this site.

From a purely selfish standpoint I have decided to "prune" some of the existing content of my site to hone in more closely on what interests yours truly. I have no personal interest in ever using the Ultra method of hunting. This is similar to the fact that I have no personal interest in hunting waterfowl.

And, as it is, any true naysayers who poke their head into our site for a minute can go away with an inaccurate and biased view of how any of us here hunt long range. So if I don't have a personal interest in Ultra, why make it any easier for the naysayers to criticize the more mainstream style of the LRH sport or the content of the LRH site itself.

Meanwhile, my point isn't to get into any discussion on LRH of what is an acceptable yardage and what isn't. In fact, that actually goes against the original stated purpose of LRH.com. I believe strongly in ethics, but I didn’t create this site for the purpose of discussing it. So please don’t discuss it here. That type of discussion just gets too emotional with no true closure. Kind of like trying to discuss politics and religion.

By the way, this is really a small part of many other changes to the LRH site which will appear over the next month to mark the 3 year anniversary of www.LongRangeHunting.com in April.

New software, content, structure, more promotion of stories, etc. Stay tuned.
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Unread 03-13-2004, 03:23 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 3
Re: LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

Good Afternoon!

I have been a guest here for sometime now and never could figure out what the difference was between Ultra and Long Range. To me Long Range is a result of the shooters equipment, skills, and use of these items.

My disappointment is that you droped compition from your forum, as that is my cup of tea.

Thats my option, just like shooting custom single shot pistols is. Long Range to me is 600m paper targets with my .223 TC Contender.

I guess my hole point is that how each of us conducts ourselves, both in the field and in public is very important, and reflects on all of us responsable firearm owners. It's a shame that we have to cloud our minds with public opions, but, if we don't, Long Range will mean something from our past.
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Unread 03-13-2004, 04:11 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: LRH stewardship, thoughts and some decisions

[ 03-15-2004: Message edited by: 338-378 ]
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