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London Humour

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Unread 08-23-2005, 01:22 PM
ds ds is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cz
Posts: 235
Re: London Humour

Without trying to stir the pot this is from timesonline.

"The Brazilian electrician mistakenly killed by police in the aftermath of the second London bombings was being restrained by an officer before he was shot eight times as he was sitting on a Tube train, it emerged tonight.

Witness statements and photographs from an independent police investigation leaked to ITV News also show that Jean Charles de Menezes did not run away from police at Stockwell Tube station in South London and was wearing only a denim jacket before he was shot dead on July 22.

The evidence contradicts claims from the Metropolitan Police at the time that the Brazilian’s "clothing and his behaviour at the station added to their [officers’] suspicions", that he vaulted the ticket barrier and was wearing a heavy overcoat, which could have concealed a bomb.

It also emerged that one of the undercover team keeping Senhor de Menezes’s home under surveillance was relieving himself instead of filming the operation, so officers could not tell if they had tracked down one of the alleged bombers.

His advice was "it would be worth someone else having a look" to ensure they had the right man. No other officer apparently did take a picture of him even though he had to take a bus journey to the station.

Even so, Gold Command at the Yard which was running this operation, declared a "code red" and handed responsibility to CO19 - the firearms team. The armed team had been given photographs of the alleged bombers, yet no one realised that Senhor de Menezes bore no resemblance to any of those men.

The investigation report states that the firearms unit of the police had been told that "unusual tactics" may be required and if they "were deployed to intercept a subject and there was an opportunity to challenge, but if the subject was non compliant, a critical shot may be taken."

CCTV footage clearly shows that Senhor de Menezes was wearing a thin denim jacket so he could not be concealing a bomb and nor was he carrying any bag.

Far from running to avoid police who were tailing him, the electrician did not realise anyone was following him. He used his season ticket and did not vault the barrier. He only began to run when he saw a train pull into the station and as many commuters do he quickened his pace to catch it.

At this point a surveillance officer guided four armed police into the same carriage in which Senhor de Menezes took his seat.

A man sitting opposite him is quoted as saying: "Within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left. He was pointing a small black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me.

"He pointed the gun at the right hand side of the man's head. The gun was within 12 inches of the man's head when the first shot was fired."

The report also reveals for the first time that a member of the surveillance team, who sat nearby, got involved and grabbed Senhor de Menezes before he was shot: "I heard shouting which included the word ‘police’ and turned to face the male in the denim jacket.

"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the CO19 officers …I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side.

"I then pushed him back onto the seat where he had been previously sitting … I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."

Photographs showed how Senhor de Menezes was shot at virtually point blank range as he was still in his seat. A coroner said he was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.

Mark Oaten, Home Affairs Spokesman for the Liberal Democrats, said: "If true, these preliminary findings will create obvious concerns. It is in the best interests of the police and the community for the full report and any recommendations, to be published as quickly as possible."

Sorry for more on this topic but it seems to offer a description of what happened.
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Unread 08-24-2005, 07:31 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Blighty
Posts: 637
Re: London Humour


Been for a run; it’s pouring with rain, what else is there to do now than waste time on LRH….. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Although we’re basing this on incomplete documentation leaked by some disloyal member of the IPCC for monetary gain; yes, it now appears that the cumulative effect of –fairly minor- surveillance errors lead to the operators ‘at the coal face’ being passed duff int/intel.

Remember that they can only act on the int fed to them. Because the ‘data’ collected by the surveillance units appears to have been mis-assessed, they were launched onto a target clear in their minds [based on an int feed that has now turned out to be erroneous (buy and read ‘The Psychology of Military Incompetence’ by N F Dixon; this is by no means unique)] that they were facing a suicide bomber. Their actions would have been based on that honest [but now, from our armchairs, wrong] belief.

The padded vs denim jacket issue is an irrelevance, shirts are plenty enough cover for an explosive vest/ other device. Re-read the actions alleged on the train as though you were one of the operators talked onto an individual that the int-feed in your ear has told you is a confirmed suicide bomber.
In that context, I hope you can understand comments like this from a former Commander of the Met:

It is alleged that a surveillance officer wrapped his arms around Mr de Menezes in an attempt to prevent him from triggering any explosives. The bravery of that officer is extraordinary, and he or she deserves the highest recognition for outstanding courage.

[/ QUOTE ]

On top of this, I still don’t understand the desire of the media (who appear to have entirely forgotten the actual terrorist attacks) to pillory the Police; ….maybe they feel it’s a target they can get…


A small group of men set out to kill as many people as possible. They happened to be Muslim and they killed More than 50 people deliberately.

Another small group of men set out to save others from being slaughtered. They happened to be Policemen and they killed one man by a dreadful mistake.

Almost everyone goes to great lengths to acknowledge that because the first group were Muslim does not mean Muslims cannot be trusted. In fact the law forbids that conclusion; it calls it "racism".

Yet because the second group made its awful mistake, there is, in some quarters, a view that the Police cannot be trusted, but no one claims it is "Policism".
Let us be even-handed in our assumptions about what the [errors] of a few say about the character of the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

How's the weather in the Czech republic?
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Unread 08-24-2005, 12:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 658
Re: London Humour

Matt thats simple.. i don't trust either groups. or the politicians.
Brit soldiers get court martialed for abusing prisoners, Canadian soldiers get near enough the same for having photo taken with dead body.
Brit Police bungle up, in thier usual fashion when it comes to the use or admisistration or anything else to do with firearms and we are expected to ignore it in the name of anti terrorism.
Ive got a solution for many of the UK's problems, but it aint PC..
deport all muslims, kill all terrorists and train all police in the proficient use of firearms, enlighten all politicians and chief police officers to the fact that legal use and ownership of private firearms tends to have a positive rather than negative effect on crime.
Put all the money we save now we don't have to pay dole to or house fire breathing mad mullahs and thier folowers, into the education of our children and our national health service.. see how the quality of life in the UK improves over the next 20 years..
heck i should be running the country not Tony..
Occupying the British Zone. www.roedaleprecision.com
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Unread 08-27-2005, 10:59 AM
ds ds is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cz
Posts: 235
Re: London Humour

Brown Dog,

Weather here is good even hot as in shorts and not much else. However next week I have a fair bit of shooting to do, entertaining a couple police and militery friends so I guess by then it will be raining. Highlight of the week should be a police / military comp with some invites. I am expecting a 20 year old girl to kick evryones butt including mine. It will be worth it just to watch the big police wigs trying not to choke as they give her first prize.
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