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**** lodge/masons oaths ****

 
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  #120  
Old 01-20-2010, 06:37 PM
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Re: **** lodge/masons oaths ****

jmden, in your post to roll yur own you said "It sounds to me that you are Catholic" I don't think it was your intention but I'll air it so folks don't have an incorrect perception but, are you stereotyping all Catholics as being like roll yur own? If not...that's good to know. If so then I respect your opinion.
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  #121  
Old 01-20-2010, 06:45 PM
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Re: **** lodge/masons oaths ****

Jmden, you are not anti Catholic or Antisemetic. You just think they are going to hell????

You base your beliefs on protestant scripture that is only 400 years old and comes directly from Jewish and Catholic scripture.

You do not have your own scripture. How can you retranslate this stuff 1600 years later (and way older with old testament scripture) and say you are correct and they are not?

That is like rewritting romeo and juliet and saying shakespear was wrong.

Do you not see the flaw in your logic?

Evangelical Christianity is designed to put fear into people to get them to conform. They do this so they can make money.

If I'm wrong then how come the big names like pat robinson and ted haggard are multi millionaires flying around on private jets?

How many Rabbis, Catholic Priests, or other clergy have as much money? Not many.

Yes, I have great anger toward your kind. I know you truly believe what your taught so my anger should not be directed at you but rather at the leadership. And, I apologise for calling names. It was inappropriate.

But, I believe in a kind and gentle Jesus and that is what I preach.
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  #122  
Old 01-20-2010, 07:08 PM
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Re: **** lodge/masons oaths ****

So then what about those of us who have killed someone either in the military or in law enforcement? Are we not going to heaven? Looking back, I've also broken most of the ten commandments at one time or another. Some several times! I can honestly say that I've never killed anyone who wasn't actively trying to kill me. Am I still going to hell? Will the meek really enherit the earth. I guess I just don't want to believe that.

On a side note: Hasn't anyone noticed that Bigbuck is playing you guys like a harp. He just waits for things to settle down and people to start to agree or agree to disagree. Then he plucks a string and watches as the fires erupt. We'd all be better off not to let him manipulate us into his trap. My guess is that he doesn't have anyone around the house to argue with and more than likely doesn't even hunt, let alone have a rifle.

Some thoughts.

Tom
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  #123  
Old 01-20-2010, 07:50 PM
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Re: **** lodge/masons oaths ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by roaddog1m View Post
So then what about those of us who have killed someone either in the military or in law enforcement? Are we not going to heaven? Looking back, I've also broken most of the ten commandments at one time or another. Some several times! I can honestly say that I've never killed anyone who wasn't actively trying to kill me. Am I still going to hell? Will the meek really enherit the earth. I guess I just don't want to believe that.

On a side note: Hasn't anyone noticed that Bigbuck is playing you guys like a harp. He just waits for things to settle down and people to start to agree or agree to disagree. Then he plucks a string and watches as the fires erupt. We'd all be better off not to let him manipulate us into his trap. My guess is that he doesn't have anyone around the house to argue with and more than likely doesn't even hunt, let alone have a rifle.

Some thoughts.

Tom
Another article from answersingenesis.org --


Contradictions: A Time to Kill?


Is it okay to kill, like David killing Goliath or Joshua eliminating Canaanites? Or is killing forbidden?

by Roger Patterson, AiG–U.S.

December 29, 2008


Layman
Keywords



Contradictions

A web-only series tackling the supposed contradictions in God’s Word
Exodus 20:13
“You shall not murder.”
Exodus 22:2
“If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.”
Leviticus 24:15–16
“Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death.”
Leviticus 24:17
“Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.”
1 Samuel 17:50
So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and struck the Philistine and killed him.
In order to answer this apparent contradiction, we must make a distinction between killing someone and committing murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of a life, while killing may be lawful or unlawful. The establishment of capital punishment actually extends back to the Noahic Covenant when God declared, “Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:5–6).
Even before this, Cain was afraid of the other members of his family seeking to kill him after he had murdered his brother Abel (Genesis 4:13–15).1 In the cases outlined in Scripture, taking the life of another in the name of justice was not murder. The question poses a false dilemma in that killing does not have to be always right or always wrong—God has provided qualifications.
Because man is made in the image of God, the death of a human is not taken lightly. In the laws given to Israel through Moses, those sins that were worthy of death were detailed. Leviticus 19 is one such place where these commands are given. Since these are commands directly from God and God cannot lie, we understand that there must be no contradiction in the commands. Those who committed sexual sins were to be justly killed, but only upon the clear affirmation of their crime established by witnesses.
As the author of the first five books of the Bible, Moses would not have written contradictory ideas. If we allow for killing to be wrong in every case, when a person carried out capital punishment, as commanded by God, they would have to be killed for the taking of a life. Then their life would be demanded, and so on until humanity was left with one. Extending the logic allows us to see how absurd the claim of a contradiction truly is.
The Bible provides many circumstances under which the taking of a life is legally allowed by Scripture. Killing another person in an act of self defense (Exodus 22:2) was permitted with no consequences. There are examples of God calling the people to war against other nations to punish them for their sins. When Joshua led the children of Israel into the Promised Land, God commanded the Israelites to utterly destroy the idolatrous peoples who inhabited the land (Deuteronomy 20:16–17). A list of their sins can be found in Leviticus 18, including incest, murdering children, and so on. When God called Israel to war against those in the Promised Land, then He was permitting the killing in this situation, making men His agents of justice, as in the case with capital punishment.
The killing of Goliath by the young David was, likewise, justified in the eyes of God. In fact, David was angered by the way that Goliath blasphemed God and met him in battle. David did not trust in himself, but in the Lord to deliver Goliath into his hands. This is an example of continuance of the war the Israelites had been engaged in with the inhabitants of the Promised Land, as directed by God.
God repeatedly chose war and capital punishment as a way to bring judgment on peoples and individuals who were acting in defiance of His will by doing great sin. He ordained the killing as a punishment to accomplish His purposes in the world.
This should give an idea of seriousness of sin. In the eyes of a perfect and holy God, one sin is worthy of death (Genesis 2:17). Since we are all sinners, we are all under the death sentence already. In essence, we are all on “death row,” and those who murder or do other terrible sins as described in Scripture, simply had their wait on “death row” shortened.
God hates sin, especially those that lead to any situation where a human life is lost. His holy nature and subsequent hatred of sin make the taking of a life acceptable only in the rarest of cases. We should never seek to minimize the taking of a life—a life made in the image of God. Remember that taking a life for justifiable reasons is only necessary because we live in a world of sin. The perfect creation would not have required death for any reason.
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"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
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  #124  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:02 PM
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Re: **** lodge/masons oaths ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas1 View Post
jmden, in your post to roll yur own you said "It sounds to me that you are Catholic" I don't think it was your intention but I'll air it so folks don't have an incorrect perception but, are you stereotyping all Catholics as being like roll yur own? If not...that's good to know. If so then I respect your opinion.
Not at all. Roll has indicated that he has the Catholic bible and has given indication in one other place I believe about following Catholic teachings. That is all. Someone else, britz I believe, brought up the idea of catholicism and I was responding to that as if a Catholic closely follows the human doctines of Rome, they will be clearly outside biblical teaching.

The Apostle Paul, in 2 Corinthians 10:4,5 says -- The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obediant to God.

2 Timothy 3: 16 -- All Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

ALL scripture--not just the parts we want to use...
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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
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  #125  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:27 PM
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Re: **** lodge/masons oaths ****

jmden, Thanks for responding. As I said I didn't think you were and just wanted it aired. I have no dog in this debate so I'm going to go back to reading respondents views as they debate here. Take Care.
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  #126  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:30 PM
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Re: **** lodge/masons oaths ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll-Yur-Own View Post
Jmden, you are not anti Catholic or Antisemetic. You just think they are going to hell????

But didn't you just tell me that I was an anti-semite and anti-catholic? Are you flip-flopping now?

I can't say 'they', as a group of people are going to hell. Good grief, my friend, this has already been discussed. Only God knows the hearts of human. But it is clear in scripture that those who reject God will go to hell. Don't reject him. He has given his life for you. How will you respond?

You base your beliefs on protestant scripture that is only 400 years old and comes directly from Jewish and Catholic scripture.

How many times have I already told you that I'm not a KJV only person? The KJV is a useful translation and I have little problem with it. There are many great translations out there. I would look to the English Standard Version (ESV) and the New International Version (NIV) for a good general reading version first.

You do not have your own scripture. How can you retranslate this stuff 1600 years later (and way older with old testament scripture) and say you are correct and they are not?

You're right. I don't have my own scripture. You can own something like that. It is God's scripture. Who (what version you mean?) am I saying is not correct? I don't believe I've said a particular version isn't correct, have I? Are you mistaking me with someone else that I've clearly distanced myself from in this regard?

That is like rewritting romeo and juliet and saying shakespear was wrong.

Do you not see the flaw in your logic?

Point it out for me, please.

Evangelical Christianity is designed to put fear into people to get them to conform. They do this so they can make money.

Let's take a quick look at Jesus 12 disciples. Did following Jesus make any of them rich? Bring them comfort, etc.? No, instead they were routinely beaten, mocked, ridiculed and killed. They bore the cross of Christ a cross that has nothing to do with earthly riches. Roll, I don't know where you get this stuff. Again, you're taking what you want and are not willing to closely investigate the standard--Christ himself revealed to us through the scriptures.

Do some christian ministries so-called abuse their position to make money? You bet...and Christ will hold them accountable for this awful sin! But I would submit to you that a ministry 'so-called' that does this is anything but truly Christian.

Our standard cannot be represented by any human as any human is a fallen sinful being and the words they say must be measured carefully agains the ruler of Scripture. All will be found lacking in someway. All of us will be found lacking in many, horrible ways. That's why we need Christ and his sacrifice that can forgive our sins. It is the only way as so clearly taught in scripture.

If I'm wrong then how come the big names like pat robinson and ted haggard are multi millionaires flying around on private jets?

See above. I don't know about these indiviuals to the extent you detail, but that doesn't matter. God will judge accordingly. I don't know the hearts of those men. Only God does.

I'm not trying to make any money here, in fact I'm probaly losing money spending so much time on this here, but that is not important.

How many Rabbis, Catholic Priests, or other clergy have as much money? Not many.

1 Timothy 6:10 -- For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

We need to make sure our hearts are on the right scriptural track regarding money. It's a struggle we all have, myself as much as any man.


Yes, I have great anger toward your kind. I know you truly believe what your taught so my anger should not be directed at you but rather at the leadership. And, I apologise for calling names. It was inappropriate.

Thank you for the apology. It is accepted.

Roll, I am repeating directly from the Bible, over and over again. I certainly hope there is nothing I have said in my feeble attempt to show the plan God has for his creation that is not scriptural. Your fight is not with me. Your fight is with God. Only he can show you this.

Ephesians 6:12 -- For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

But, I believe in a kind and gentle Jesus and that is what I preach.
Yes, Jesus is very kind and gentle, but that is only part of God. He also HATES sin and will punish it justly. Endeavor to come to know him and obey him and live in his love!

Jon

Replies in bold above.
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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
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