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KIRBY---> You need a website .

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Unread 01-13-2007, 09:29 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Back in the south -NW FL..
Posts: 1,160
KIRBY---> You need a website .

I read so much that sometimes it all runs together.

Sometimes i have trouble remembering what some of the parent cartridges and info. on your wildcats are.

I've seen your AM's spoke of at greybeards ,24hr campfire ,pred. masters etc-etc..--So come on and get a website so i don't have to come here and do research and take back to where-ever [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] !!

Maybe you and Richard could partner up and show how you'all's guns -cartridges and bullets will tear-asss way way out yonder.
Just a thought of coarse.-Mike
AIPAC for president !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Unread 01-13-2007, 11:28 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Riggins Idaho
Posts: 1,195
Re: KIRBY---> You need a website .

I agree 110% come on Kirby get a site up and running with some pics of rifles and critters killed with them. I guess you can throw in a couple pics of custom Xp's and strikers too. Data, and cartridge descriptions along with some of the wild cats on it. Would be great.
I dont know who ever came up with the imaganary word of "Over Gunned"
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Unread 01-14-2007, 03:25 AM
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Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,848
Re: KIRBY---> You need a website .

I cant keep up now!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] If I had a web site I would be so far behind I could never get rifles out on time.

Here, print this off and tape it to your fridge!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] These are all the parent cases my AMs and AXs are based on:

224 Allen Magnum...........270 WSM
257 Allen Xpress...........300 Dakota
6.5mm Allen Xpress.........300 Dakota
270 Allen Xpress...........300 Dakota
257 Allen Magnum...........338 RUM
6.5mm Allen Magnum.........338 RUM
270 Allen Magnum...........7mm or 300 RUM
277 Allen Magnum...........338 Lapua
7mm Allen Magnum...........338 Lapua
300 Allen Xpress...........338 Lapua *
300 Allen Magnum...........408 Chey Tac *
338 Allen Magnum...........408 Chey Tac
375 Allen Magnum...........408 Chey Tac *
458 Allen Magnum...........408 Chey Tac *
50 Allen Tactical..........408 Chey Tac
510 Allen Magnum...........50 BMG

* still in research and development stages, will be available this spring and summer.

If you want specific performance numbers and what bullets each is resigned to be used with let me know and I will post that as well or send me an e-mail and I will get the information to you.

Richard keeps making to many different bullets, we would be updating the site non stop!!! Its funny, everytime we talk on the phone it ends up costing both of use $1000 because of new ideas we scheme up!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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Unread 01-14-2007, 03:28 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,848
Re: KIRBY---> You need a website .


you guys are the very first to know about all the new toys we are playing with and the results we get!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If you want a complete list of all the APS wildcats and their specs and performance numbers in one post let me know and I will work on it. Theres getting to be a pile of them!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Ya know if I stopped making and testing new APS wildcats, I may make some money doing this, but what fun would that be!!!

Let me know if you want the information.

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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Unread 01-14-2007, 07:53 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Potomac River
Posts: 5,084
Re: KIRBY---> You need a website .

If I had a web site I would be so far behind I could never get rifles out on time.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I appreciate the fact that mine was ready when I needed it. Thanks again.
The Smokin Fur Rifle Club
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Unread 01-15-2007, 07:01 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central AZ
Posts: 1,148
Re: KIRBY---> You need a website .

With your permission Kirby, I will post here what you did for me about a month ago. I changed the format some for easier reading, but the data & info is sound. If anybody wants a copy of the in MS Word format, let me know and I will send you one for your fridge:

Allen Magnum Cartridges

224 Allen Magnum....................In testing

270 WSM - parent case

Ballistics: 107 gr. ULD RBBT Wildcat loaded to 3450 fps in 27" barrel. So far this round has proven too much for the bullets we currently have available. It needs a 1-7 twist to stabilize these very long 22 cal bullets, but at velocities over 3100 fps the high RPMs rip the bullets apart. Wildcat Bullets is currently designing some heavy jacketed 110 gr. ULD FB bullets specifically for this cartridge to see if we can get it off the ground and into production for customers. Case forming is not terribly hard but fire-forming is needed and case neck and shoulder annealing is highly recommended for this cartridge to prevent neck splits. Ultra slow ball powders are the only powders suitable for this chambering.

257 Allen Xpress

300 Dakota Magnum - parent case

Ballistics: 130 gr. Bonded Core FBHP @3400 fps in 27" barrel; 142 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3250 fps in 27" barrel; 156 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3100 fps in 27" barrel. This round will produce performance slightly higher then the 257 STW wildcat, but in a case length that is only 2.5" in length. The round is very accurate with a proper twist barrel for the different bullet weights. For the 130 gr. pills, 1-10 is correct, for the heavier ULD RBBT bullets, a 1-7 is recommended. Case forming is again relatively easy using a Redding bushing neck sizing die. Cases must be fire-formed and also neck and shoulder annealing is recommended.

6.5mm Allen Xpress

This round is basically identical to the 257 version, but seven thousandths larger in bullet diameter. Whatever was said for the 257 is the same for the 6.5mm. Just for those that want a 6.5mm over a 257.

270 Allen Xpress

300 Dakota Magnum - parent case

Ballistics: 140 gr. Accubond @ 3400 fps in 27" barrel; 169.5 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3200 fps in 27" barrel. One of the easiest of the Allen Xpress rounds to load for. Will match or exceed 7mm STW performance in same length barrels with shorter case length. Must be fire-formed, but neck annealing is up to the loader. I have loaded many rounds on unannealed cases and had no problems with this chambering.

257 Allen Magnum

338 RUM - parent case

Ballistics: 130 gr. Bonded Core FBHP @ 3650 fps in 30" barrel; 156 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3350 fps in 30" barrel. This is the largest 25 cal on the market that I know of today. It far exceeds anything that the 257 STW or 257 Banshee can offer and with the 156 gr. ULD RBBT, it turns the 25 cal. into a legit 1000 yard deer chambering. It is one of the most extreme rounds in the Allen Magnum line. The 257 AM must only be used with ball powders to prevent powder bridging problems with the very large capacity and small bore diameter. Stick powders are simply dangerous to use. Cases must be fire-formed and annealed to prevent neck splitting. Accuracy wise, this round has proven very accurate out to 1000 yards and has taken coyote size targets out to 1200 yards with first shot kills in heavy sporter-weight rifles.

6.5mm Allen Magnum

Again, basically the same as the 257 AM, but in 6.5mm for those who prefer that chambering for better bullet selection.

270 Allen Magnum

7mm or 300 RUM - parent case

Ballistics: 169.5 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3450 fps in 30" barrel; 195 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3200 fps in 30" barrel. This is by far the most popular and easiest to load of the entire Allen Magnum and Allen Xpress line of cartridges. Simply run a 7mm RUM or 300 RUM through a 270 AM FL die to neck down, load and shoot and out comes a formed 270 AM case ready to be trimmed and loaded with full tilt loads. No case neck annealing is needed with this round especially if you use 7mm RUM cases.

This is a very high performance round that will dramatically surpass any factory offered magnum round with the use of the two listed bullets above. The 169.5 gr. is recommended for long range deer hunting and the heavy 195 gr. ULD RBBT is for heavier game such as elk. Any powders suitable for the 7mm RUM round will work equally as well in the 270 AM. You can also use bullets such as the 130 gr. Ballistic Tip and
140 gr. Accubond loaded to 3800 and 3625 fps, respectively. For 600 yard and under deer hunting, these are about as flat shooting as you can get. At longer ranges, the heavier bullets have better ballistic performance and penetration on big game.

This round has accounted for many head of game taken over 600 yards and in the first spring of testing, it harvested 5 rockchucks at ranges from 990 yard to 1250 yards all with one shot kills in a heavy sporter-weight rifle. It also holds my personal best 500 yard three shot group at 0.543" center-to-center for three shots at 500 yards. It is a very accurate round and extremely easy to load for.

7mm Allen Magnum

338 Lapua Magnum - parent case

Ballistics: 160 gr. Accubond @ 3550 fps in 30" barrel; 200 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3300 fps in 30" barrel. This round requires a Redding bushing neck sizing die to neck down the 338 Lapua down. It is easy, but it does require an extra die to be purchased to form cases. Also, cases need to be fire-formed and should be annealed after forming. With Lapua cases, I have found the necks are annealed well enough from the factory that annealing them is not a requirement but is recommended.

Accuracy wise, this chambering is on the top of the pile as well. I used my personal light rifle in this chambering this fall to take seven head of game with the closest being at 300 yards and the farthest at 850 yards. Five animals were over 600 yards and three were over 740 yards. And that is out of a 9 lb rifle!
Ballistic performance is extreme with the 200 gr. ULD RBBT and to be honest, nothing will come close to it until you get up to the class of my 338 Allen Magnum. No factory chambering even come close and very few wildcats can compete as well. It is a bit harder to form cases for than the 270 AM, but it provides a higher level of ballistic performance as well.

300 Allen Xpress.................................In testing

338 Lapua Magnum - parent case

Ballistics: 180 gr. Accubond @ 3450 fps in 27" barrel; 200 gr. Accubond @ 3300 fps in 27" barrel; 290 gr. ULD RBBT @ 2800 fps in 27" barrel. This round is nothing more then my 7mm AM necked up to 30 cal. This chambering will offer performance over that of the 300 RUM or 30-338 Lapua and will basically match the larger 30-378 in performance with a lot less powder because of the case design being able to handle much higher chamber pressures. For long range comp or hunting, the 290 gr. ULD RBBT will be most impressive and offer decent barrel life. It should load easier than the 7mm AM and be less finicky as well because of the larger bore diameter.

300 Allen Magnum.......................In testing

408 Chey Tac parent case

Ballistics: 290 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3300 fps in 32" barrel. This round is an experiment in the EXTREME. We wanted to see just how fast we could drive the 290 gr. ULD RBBT. If we can get up to 3300 fps, this would be the ultimate in flat shooting performance. Barrel life will obviously be shortened with a 150 gr. case capacity; but as a big game rifle, it will still offer many seasons of accurate use before barrel replacement.

Case necks will need to be annealed after fire-forming and only the very slowest powders on the market will be suitable for this huge 30 cal. magnum. A Special custom made case forming die is required to neck down the 408 CT case to 30 cal., so there is an additional cost there. Also, loading dies and special die bushings for the 300 AM will be quite a bit more expensive than for the smaller Allen Magnum rounds because the FL die needs to be larger in diameter to handle the large diameter case.

338 Allen Magnum

408 Chey Tac - parent case

Ballistics: 300 gr. SMK or ULD RBBT @ 3350 fps in 32" barrel, @ 3450 fps in 36-38" barrel; 350 gr. ULD RBBT @ 3150 fps in 32" barrel, @ 3250 fps in 36-38" barrel. This is a true power house and the current largest version of a 338 cal. wildcat on the 408 CT case as far as case volume is concerned. Ballistic performance is simply unmatched by anything out there in a conventional shoulder fired rifle. Even the 50 BMG pails in comparison in every ballistic category, except kinetic energy. This performance comes at a price as far as loading dies are concerned, but it is a one-time expense for the ultimate in ballistic performance - a pretty small price to pay. This chambering, along with the 300 AM and other cartridges after this, will require larger custom receivers because of the size of the case used with this round.

375 Allen Magnum...............................In testing

408 Chey Tac parent case

This round is basically the 338 AM necked up to 375 cal. Currently we are waiting on heavy bullets to make this chambering really worth releasing to the public. Sierra is reportedly building a new 375 gr. SMK in this caliber and Wildcat Bullets will be making ULD RBBT in bullet weights up to 410 gr. as soon as the bullet making dies arrive. With the proper bullets, this chambering may even exceed the performance of the 338 AM, but without these special bullets it is not a practical choice.

458 Allen Magnum.............................In testing

408 Chey Tac parent case

This new wildcat addition to the Allen Magnum line will be directed primarily toward the Military, but will also be available to the public once fully tested. Currently the military is using the 50 BMG as a heavy sniper round for barricaded targets. The only problem is that the rifles are very heavy, large and expensive with a 50 BMG receiver running close to $2000 for just the receiver. The goal of the 458 Allen Magnum is to offer near 50 BMG performance in a package that offers much longer barrel life, much improved accuracy and consistency and chambered in a rifle that weighs less than 1/2 what a 50 BMG chambered rifle weighs.

Wildcat Bullets is starting production on a new 600 gr. ULD RBBT specifically for this chambering, which should have a BC nearly identical to that of a 750 gr. 50 cal. match bullet and much higher than any military style bullet. In a 32" barrel, we are looking to generate up to 2650 fps with this bullet weight. Comparing this to a standard Ball 50 BMG round loaded to around 2650 fps with a 700 gr. FMJBT with a much lower BC than the 600 gr. ULD RBBT 458 bullet. Like the smaller caliber Allen Magnums on the 408 CT case, this one will also require some special tooling to load for, but again, this is a one-time investment.

50 Allen Tactical...................................In testing

408 Chey Tac - parent case

Ballistics: 750 gr. ULD RBBT @ 2600 fps in 32" barrel; 750 gr. A-Max @ 2450 fps in a 32" barrel. This round is another directed to military use as well as civilian. The first test rifle has been finished in this round and load development will be carried out soon. The goal of this round is to use the good selection of modern 50 cal match bullets to basically match standard mil spec 50 BMG performance in a much smaller, less expensive and more consistent and accurate cartridge design.

510 Allen Magnum

50 BMG - parent case

Ballistics: 750 gr. A-Max at 2900 fps in 34" barrel; 835 gr. ULD RBBT SP @ 2750 fps in 34" barrel. Basically, this is an improved version of the standard 50 BMG. Our goal was to increase case capacity to the point to allow the 510 AM to drive a 100 gr. heavier bullet to the same velocity range or higher than the standard 50 BMG. We have accomplished this easily.

Forming these rounds is relatively easy in spite of the size of the round. All you need to do is anneal the shoulder area very well on a virgin, unfired 50 BMG case, then load and shoot it. Out comes a fully formed 510 Allen Magnum case with roughly 40 grains more case capacity than the 50 BMG. Current test loads have gone as high as 245 gr. of H-50 BMG under an 835 gr. ULD RBBT, which produced velocities just shy of 2800 fps. Standard match performance from a 50 BMG will drive a 750 gr. bullet to 2550 to 2650 fps.

Obviously this round will require custom receivers and reloading tooling because of its size. For anyone wanting the most they can get in a 50 cal., without getting extremely exotic and still being able to use
conventional easily available components, this is the ultimate in 50 cal. performance.

Accuracy has proven very good in the 34" Lilja barrel with the 750 gr. A-Max routinely cutting ragged one hole groups at 200 yards and holding under 3/4 moa at 1000 yards in relatively windy conditions. Recoil, while attention grabbing, is not punishing with the 5 port APS brake I machined for the rifle.
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Unread 01-15-2007, 07:14 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 281
Re: KIRBY---> You need a website .

Wow that means a .257 Allen Xpress should fit in an XP-100
with a 18" barrel. Now that would be an interesting LRH .
I wonder what we could get out of the 142 ULD RBBT'S
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