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I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

 
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  #29  
Old 10-29-2012, 06:44 AM
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Location: Great Falls, MT
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Re: I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

God watches over us always! Glad the young shooter is OK.

I know that HARPERC means very well and have no intention of hurting anyone.

We all know the rule (or law) of safety but sometimes Murphy sneaks in and prevails.

Sure, it's very easy to point a finger at fault(s) but I must commend HARPERC for coming forward and share the experience for us to learn from or reinforce safety. He didn't have to but it takes a special person of integrity and honesty for posting the misfortune.

God bless to all parties involved.

Ed
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  #30  
Old 10-29-2012, 08:42 AM
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Re: I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

I'm no expert at anything, but have a question. How long did the round set in the chamber before firing? I'm wondering if there were several shots fired rapidly causing the barrel to heat up. Then a round sat in there a minute or two. The extra airspace allowed combustible vapors to accumulate causing an explosion instead of burning.

Again, this is speculation. Hopefully someone with more experience can tell me if my idea holds water.

I'm glad the boy was okay. Kids do have someone looking after them from upstairs.

Chris
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  #31  
Old 10-29-2012, 08:46 AM
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Re: I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

Harper, it is something that could happen to anyone. I have for myself fired a new rifle the FIRST shot and seen the primer blow out and egg the primer pocket with a factory round. Was a DPMS in 260. Had a chamber and timing problem. I know you feel terrible and I would as well. But have a long talk with the boy and try to explain to him what happened then move on. You both will learn from all this and his confidence will come back soon.

I am sorry for all involved and glad it was not worse. I feel I know you well enough to say I am sure that this is not easy for you. But I would learn from it and let it go. It is time to turn this experience around again and get it back on track for some enjoyable times in the field.

Thanks for being so honest and up front. Many here have learned from this, and that is good.

Jeff
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  #32  
Old 10-29-2012, 10:21 AM
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Re: I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

First things first, while not having this happen would have been best, I’m sincerely glad for all involved this turned out no worse than it has.


I’ve been following this thread for the last couple of days with interest and my intention is to contribute so that understanding what went wrong is achieved. If I’m wrong, confusing or otherwise not productive, let me apologize for that right now.


The discussion of “low charge” and “second pressure wave” makes sense to me when I think about it. Hence the warnings in the manuals about not “further reducing the charge.” My point in mentioning this is a “what if” scenario. Since the previous round hit the target successfully, it is obvious THAT bullet did not get stuck in the barrel. BUT, “What If,” because of the soft loads, that barrel had become excessively fouled? Now when the ‘accident” round was fired, the bore was partially restricted and the charge not enough to overcome that restriction resulting in that bullet lodging in the bore and gun coming apart the way it did. I would find it interesting to know it there is a bullet lodged in the barrel now. If so, then the scenario I mention would be circumstantially possible.

To someone with more knowledge, is this scenario possible?


Harperc, use this event to teach the kids (and the grown-ups) to learn from adversity rather than to run from it. I had something like this happen to me when I was a teenager. We blew-up a friends dad’s 03 Springfield using the wrong ammunition, in the wrong gun, at the wrong time plinking cans. Rick’s dad could have ripped us all a new one but he didn’t. Rick and I both came away from that incident with a higher respect for the tools we use. Our respective mothers were less understanding but that too changed with time.


Pete
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  #33  
Old 10-29-2012, 10:52 AM
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Location: NW MT in a remote quiet area
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Re: I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

Harper, I feel for you. I saw this happen when very young to someone else. It was similar in that no great harm came of it. You are one of the finest members on this site and it was very exemplary that you shared this with all of us to be more aware that it can happen to anyone and at anytime. Thanks for posting this, as we all learn well from and event like this.
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  #34  
Old 10-29-2012, 01:37 PM
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Re: I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

Thanks for the encouragement guys. We will carry on, getting up and getting back on is part of life. This was one of the times when a complete stand down, and review of the event was necessary. I have a couple of more work days, then maybe we can take advantage of the break in the deer season to put a couple of grouse in the pot.
Wile E good thought, I hadn't looked in the bore until now. I put a rod in it and it goes all the way to the bolt face. I hadn't considered running a patch through it, but will later, if it produces anything meaningful I'll let you know. I have read of a core shooting through, and leaving a jacket behind, but it was long ago, and the specifics don't come to mind right now. I did check for a bulge, and there isn't one. We had less than 20 rounds since it was cleaned, and really from what can be seen is not fouled especially now. One thing that stands out each time I look at the damage is the pillars in the action. They really seem to have directed gas down and out. I've seen pictures of tangs, and fore ends involved when every thing lets go. While there is some disagreement if pillar bedding is necessary for accuracy, it may serve another purpose. This particular barrel has a history of taking more rounds to foul, and being the easiest to clean I've ever known. We shot rounds in pairs, setting up hunting situations, a very small small pine substituted for grouse head (he hit too) then move on. Barrel wasn't heated at anytime, and that round was chambered for probably a minute, and was the second round fired from a completely cold bore.
The adults involved have been very supportive of our continued association. I think the relative risk of being in the hills with the men, compared to hanging with the boys in town isn't lost on anyone here.
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  #35  
Old 10-29-2012, 11:03 PM
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Re: I fouled up BIGTIME! Please read!

HarperC, If I were in your area, I would let you take my daughter and help teach her to shoot. With your reloads. You know you made a mistake somewhere, and you are going out of your way to correct it so that it never happens again. We all make mistakes. Some are more damaging than others. I only use trailboss personally for reduced loads, because it works consistently with every cartridge and there are instructions on Hodgdons website to figure the proper loads safely in any cartridge even if it is not listed in their manual. I would highly recommend trying it. That said I know that one could use 5744 or IMR SR4759 to make up reduced loads. Did you use a magnum primer? Using a standard primer could possibly cause a secondary ignition from what I have read. Bulky fast burning powders, to my understanding, need magnum primers to ignite the entire charge at once where a standard primer such as the CCI200 (it is pretty mild) could Possibly ignite the rear portion of the charge, push the bullet into the lands and the remainder of the charge lights off after the immediate pressure pushed the bullet out of the case, now the bullet serves as an obstruction, causing catastrophic failure. I don't know if this is what happened, but it can. was the barrel hot when it failed? could have affected pressures. Bottom line DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS they keep us and those who may fire our rifles alive. I don't have to tell you and I know the feeling when you have made a mistake that even COULD HAVE seriously injured a child. You are handling it the ONLY RIGHT WAY. Examining your practice and leaving no stone unturned. Just like that kid needs to pull a trigger again quick, you need to get back in that reloading room quick even if the sight of it makes you want to throw up at the moment.
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