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How bad did I break it?

 
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  #1  
Old 06-04-2005, 06:17 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Dakota
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How bad did I break it?

Well I am not having a very good day today at all. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I loaded up the 6mm 110gr Wildcat bullets Kirby was nice enough to send me and went out in the back yard for some load testing. I started at 50.5 grains of R-22 and I have shot up to 52.5 with the 105 A-max without any trouble. I shot the first group and they shot about 2inches at 300 yards. I had no sticky bolt no pressure sign that I could see so I grabbed the second group which was 51.o grains and fired a shot. Well next thing I know the firing ping is sticking out the back of the bolt and I have some nice hot powder on my cheek and hands. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] I had to tap the bolt open with a rubber hammer and I was able to get the pin out and it looked fine the bolt also looks fine but I am going to have to take the bolt in to my smith because I cannot get the case out of the bolt face. This rifle is my baby and I hope to GOD I did not ruin it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I have never had this happen before in 15 years of reloading. I do not know what happend? No sticky bolt, no ejector marks then .5 grains more and the gun comes apart and the powder LOT is the same? I know these 110 bullets have more bearing surface then anything I have shot but would .5 grains more of powder would cause that much of a pressure spike? I am also going to pull the bullets and weigh the powder charge on another scale to make sure my scale is accurate. Can one of the smiths here tell me if I weakend the action and the bolt? I was using Lapua brass and the case did not come apart thank God.
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2005, 10:04 PM
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Location: Black Hills,South Dakota
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Re: How bad did I break it?

Had a similar incident quite a few yrs ago with a 223 prarie dog shooting.Bumped the charge up a little and wound up tapping the bolt handle open.Found to my disgust I galled the *@%! out of the back of the bolt lugs and mating surface in the reciever.I'm pretty well convinced that it was due to the temp. (hotter than hell dog shooting) increase compared to when I tested the rounds.
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2005, 08:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sask. Canada
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Re: How bad did I break it?

Dakor,
I fired a shot in one of my alltime favorite rigs a few years ago, smoke came back out of the bolt. I knew I had done something. Cranked open the bolt, not too difficult but not easy to open either, think I needed to give a few taps to get it started. Case stuck in bolt face. Sako extractor not in place. Tipped rifle pright and the extractor dropped out into my hand. My buddy eased the case out of the bolt face, put the extractor back in and the rifle has shot as well as it ever did.
I forgot what the details where, think it was simply switching a bullet make in that .308 Win. rifle. I pulled a factory 180 grain bullet and substituted a 180 Scirocco, not a good idea in that rifle. Bottom line, likely when you get the case removed your rifle will be fine.
Good luck!
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  #4  
Old 06-05-2005, 10:31 AM
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Re: How bad did I break it?

Dakor,

I suspect you have not done any damage to your rifle. Only area that may be effected is the locking lug surfaces but take a quick look at the back of the lugs and that will tell you all you need to know there. If they are gauled up at all they will need to be relapped.

I have not seen this level of variation in the Wildcat Bullets but I will say that anytime you shoot a very long and heavy bullet the increase in pressure will be more for each .5 gr of powder increase then it will be for a shorter bullet.

Also, these have thicker jackets then conventional match bullets so this also increases pressure.

What velocity were you getting at 50.5 gr. I suspect it was pretty high if things were that close to the edge.

I an relate one example where I have seen something similiar to this. I had developed loads in my 257 Allen Mag with the 130 gr Bonded Core FBHP bullet. Top loads were clipping along at 3650 fps. This bullet used a J-4 jacket which is quite thin.

Well on game performance proved a bit limited at this velocity level so Richard redesigned the bullet with a very heavy jacket and sent me some of the new prototype bullets. I knocked 5 grains off the load I was using and tested the first loads. Where the thin jacketed 130 gr bullets were totally comfortable at the higher load, the much thicker jackets proved that even the lower load created identical pressure as the velocity was 3640 fps with 5 grains less powder and the stouter bullet.

Luckily I was using 8700 which has a very shallow pressure curve compared to RL-22 so I had no problems with bolt lift, extraction or ejection.

I increased the powder charge by 1 gr, remember this is in a case with a +100 gr capacity and the bolt lift was heavy and the primer fell out of the case as it was ejected.

Point being the Chronograph is the best tool to predict pressure with a new bullet.

Just curious how these 50.5 gr loads compared with your A-Max loads in velocity.

I am sure there is no permament damage to your rifle if any at all. Make sure the bolt body is clear of primer jacket when the case is removed to prevent the firing pin from wedging in the bolt body. This can be a pain to get freed in some cases.

Also, make sure the firing pin head is polished round and smooth. Any burrs will raise hell with primer jackets and generally, anytime a primer is pierced your firing pin head is scored and should be repolished. This is extremely easy to do so there really should not be a charge from your smith.

Let us know how things go, I feel bad for the trouble you had [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2005, 12:59 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sask. Canada
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Re: How bad did I break it?

Dakor,
Just to make you feel better, a fellow here fired a shot from a Browning A-Bolt in .25-06 and the barrel went spinning about twenty yards forward of the bench, essentially the action and stock went to pieces. Apparently a powder mixup. He was very fortunate to escape with minor cuts I believe, rifle was a goner.
We always think hearing protection when we shoot but we only get one set of eyes, should wear shooting glasses also.
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2005, 06:00 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 649
Re: How bad did I break it?

Ian that would really suck if that happend to this rig of mine I would have lost it I think. I hope the person is all right. I did have my shooting glasses on since I was testing a new load I am glad I did. I took the gun to my dads today and he took the bolt apart and the pin looks fine the lugs also look good but we were not able to get the case out of the bolt face even after nocking the ejector pin out. So it will be going down to Jerry Simonson of PELICAN RAPIDS MN. He built the rifle and is only 1 1/2hrs away hopefully I can get it in this week. Kirby you do not have to feel bad the blame is on me. I made a mistake some where it could have been a lot worse thats for sure. Kirby you asked what speed I was getting with the 50.5 it was around the low 3200fps range in all the excitement I deleted that string on my chrony. I can tell you the 51.0 grain charge was 3354fps with the one shot I had as that number is stuck in my mind for some reason. That would put me at what I am getting with the 105 A-Max with 52.0 grains of powder. I think after I get it back I might just stick with the 95 Ballistic Tip or play around with the Sierra 100 SPBT Gameking some more. I can live with it being a 600 yard or less rifle for deer.
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  #7  
Old 06-05-2005, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
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Re: How bad did I break it?

Dakor,

Let us know how the rifle survived the adventure when you get it back up and shooting. I suspect you will not see a difference in accuracy or consistancy. The nice thing about a Rem 700 is that if they are built square and tight, they are nearly unbreakable using appropriate componants.

I once saw an XP-100 that the owner accidentally got a heavy charge of Green Dot in the 221 Fireball case instead of Blue Dot as he was trying to make a mid velocity load.

The bolt could nto be pounded open and the barrel had to be pulled and the case literally taken out piece by piece with a foredom tool.

Today that receiver is a 223 AI and is cutting sub 1/4 moa groups.

Let us know how she recovers!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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