some of you may recall i got into an intense debate over this very subject about a year ago.
my argument then wasent about the person i was debating or his ability.
nor was it about the gunsmith who built the rifle that started the whole thing.
my concern about all this is the wannabe element.
no doubt some here have the equiptment and ability to pull off those extremly long shots.
problem as i see it are those thinking if that ahole can do it i can.
me and my buddys will get us a cheytac and become famous also.
how many gunsmiths would turn down the oppurtunity to build a gun?
we cant be watchdogs for everything but is that something to consider?
in this area long range hunting is very popular. there are spots here where a one mile shot would be no problem. most hunters here have the type of large binnoculars where seeing hits at those distances wouldnt be an issue.
very large rifles and cartridges arent an issue either.
yet as was stated by another, the very long shots are rare.
reason is very simple, conditions usually wont permit it.
at least not with any high degree of success.
thats where the experience comes into play.
knowing when to call it quits.
the difference between hitting an animal at 800 yds compared to 1500 yds is like comparing a little league fastball to randy johnsons.
of coarse theres always the luck element.
about forty years ago i stood before the pa game commission and argued on behalf of long range hunting at a public meeting.
i did so because no one else in our group would.
prior to that a group of 5 of us appeared at a private meeting with the chief of law enforcment for that organazation.
reasn was there was a move afoot within this state to ban that activity.
spearheaded by one of the commissioners who was adamently against that practice.
there were in fact a few people who were causing problems for us.
so his claims werent completly groundless.
so you see i have seen what could be personaly.
im not about to have someone not even born at that time condem me or shout me down for my opinions.
so my opinion on the subject is that it could be a good thing.
it could also be a not so good thing and unfortunitly we cant predict which.
i would suspect that some will line up to talk about their accomplishments wether true or otherwise.
others will choose to say nothing which is probably what i should have said.
Yobuck, I somewhat understand what you are saying. I am a NRA certified rifle trainer. I have taught some LR classes and in an effort to educate some up comming hunters. I didnt call it long range, rather effective range. I taught what the combination of a given rifle, ammo, equipent and shooter skill would add up to an effive range. This was determined by the distance where you could no longer keep every shot on a paper plate and how conditions affeced this. But the problem is I grew up in Iowa and have seen more deer mamed with a slug gun at 50 yards than I could ever imagine. It will happen no matter what the sport or range. You just cant fix stupid.
I agree that ELR comes with the responsibility of knowing the shot is going to be good. But to be honest, I dont usually use ELR for hunting. I have limited my shots to 1200 yards in great field conditions so far. But yet I still like to shoot ELR. I shoot to a mile often and I it has made my ability to connect on a cold bore hit at 1200 a lot easier. Because the practice has taught me what not to do.
I get the impression you are against LR hunting all together. Because, the people you are worried about could easily be just as much of a problem at 7 or 800 yards. Chances are those people could not even begin to connect at 1500. So you see it goes both ways.
I respect your opinion and appreciate your post. But I have to admit it does not change my opinion at all. I enjoy ELR and plan to continue to persue it. I will still strive to know my limits and honor game aimals with the respect they deserve. But I have to tell you, I am off after wolves tomorrow and if I find one at a mile I am sending my best effort forward. I hit my mile target today cold bore.
I like the term "effective range". That may help focus a discussion a bit more.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1
"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia
I don't yet have the equipment, or skill to consistantly connect inside 1 MOA at 800, but I keep plugging away at it on steel with the firearms I do have.
I've been shooting since I was a lil guy, but, Joining this site along with handloading is what made the difference for me personally, striving to get to where I am now. (wich is still nowhere near ELR.....yet).
Learning from members here, who walked the talk is what helped me continue to achieve what I thought nearly impossible mere years ago. Sadly there seems to be A LOT FEWER of those members willing to even comment on some threads anymore. There are guys here who have admitidly never shot past 100-200 yds, then in the very next thread tell a member who actually has a clue, that they're wrong, or that thier store bought factory gun can outshoot bla-bla-bla......
I guess I personally think its a healthy thing to push ones personal ability, in order to gain skill, & experience, but sooooo many people forget common sense somewhere along the line. I have strived to make the guns I do have perform to thier capabilitys, in corelation with my personal abilities. But in the end I realize I am still shooting factory firearms with "x" upgrades. I don't yet own a custom, purpose built, dedicated E/L/R rifle, & I know that I'm only gonna be able to get to a certain point before I need to upgrade if I want to continue to grow in knowledge & ability.
Sadly many newer members, & even a few old timers, here nowadays forget that reality.
I hope that this "E/L/R" section gets the go ahead. There is a WEALTH of knowledge here that could have room to breathe again, & members like myself could learn a lot from if they had "room to talk". Besides that, it keeps the fire lit to be able to ask, & learn from those folks, while contemplating what tools I will someday have to acomplish my goal of joining thier ranks. But for now I just gotta practice with what I have, & soak up all I can from those that truly can accomplish that level of consistancy, & accuracy.
I think that some kind of ground rules aught to be laid to qualify to post in that section. ie;
Unless its ELR on varmints, how bout enacting the ol 1500 ft lbs kenetic energy generally accepted as the norm for big, Elk size game, (this would eliminate those guys who have killed 100's of elk past 1k with a .22 lr.....ya...)
How about having to "qualify" to post in that section, or needing an invite in order to post there. I know that's not realy fair, but imo its almost necisary with the amount of short rangers proclaiming to be experts these days.
I'm no ELR guy yet, but if the guys who make this site what it is are alowed thier own place to post, then the folks like me who want to get to where they are can learn without having to sort thru the 50 other posts to get quality information.
I'm all for an ELR section, as long as it helps filter out Gomer J. Pyle so those of us who want to can keep learning from the ones who walk the talk.
Sorry for the lengthy post guys. Just some opinions, & ideas I had on the idea.
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We need an ELR forum, but it does seem to be a complicated thing to keep the threads relevant and not degrade. Maybe having a dedicated moderator would be the only answer and have threads approved by mod prior to posting a thread.
Am I trying to kill an animal at ELR, no but I dang sure am trying to shoot ELR to hone my skills and my gear inside my effective range. If I shoot at one range all the time without pushing it out I get sloppy and end up shooting to what is needed not my best.
High Fence, Low Fence, Stuck in the Fence, if I can Tag it and Eat it, it's Hunting!