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History's Sniper show

 
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  #71  
Old 01-03-2010, 09:07 AM
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Re: History's Sniper show

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and here I was afraid this thread had pettered out.

No worries. Buffalobob has now taken a commanding lead, and has a solid 'lock' on first place.
I don't mind you saying that. Those of us who are RVN vets are very used to things like that being said to us.

Your treatment of RS2G was deplorable and pretty much proved my point that some people came up on the thread with only the intent to denigrate the skills of snipers and it seems anyone who actually has combat experience.

RS2G in his last sentence hits one of the major differences between a combat sniper (and really a combat anything) and benchrest shooting/longrange hunting. That is the need to remain calm and 100 percent mentally functional in the midst of chaotic conditions and personal danger. Different people start off with different levels of ability to stay calm and focused and for most of them, they can be trained to be even more calm and focused. It is one of the skills that has to be sharpened in most people. Within 3 weeks of taking over my first combat command I had to relieve my platoon sergeant from duty because he simply was not calm and functional during a crises and I simply was unwilling to risk the lives of my men while I tried to train him.
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  #72  
Old 01-03-2010, 09:17 AM
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Re: History's Sniper show

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One last question BB --]
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Because according to you he did this with zero error.
Find where I said that and post it up in quotes. Or at least have the courage and integrity to edit your post to the point that it is truthful.
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  #73  
Old 01-03-2010, 11:59 AM
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Re: History's Sniper show

The sniper's use of the word luck is a reflection of him being humble-That's my perception.

The use of the word luck by some that have posted here was flippit and driven by a need to nurture one or more of a variety of internal emotion/s.-That's my perception.

Try as some did to put the poker face on, you knew when they new they had the weaker debate....the instant it got personal.-That's my perception.

Like it or not perception is reality for those that wrote and those that read it....Some saw the glass full while others saw it half empty.

Most here are not snipers so I wouldn't get to worked up about their writings.

On another post Kirby wrote "Those that can hunt, do. Those that can't, bitch.
Fitting for this post. Those that can snipe do and those that can't bitch.

I admire those snipers, their skills and kills. I am greatful for their service.
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  #74  
Old 01-03-2010, 12:06 PM
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Re: History's Sniper show

In rereading this entire thread I am amazed at the lack of understanding exhibited by some of the members here in what comprises "luck" vs. a planned shot.

There were certainly elements of chance involved with these shots, there are elements of chance in all shots over point blank.

However, to qualify the shots as "lucky" is simply wrong. I have stated before that "luck" means that there was NO input from the shooter. That is wrong.

The shooter controlled multiple variables, and could not control others. However, after making the initial shot, he adjusted, and then made another shot. Yes, there were still uncontrolled components, but he made adjustments based on his knowledge and ability.

If a shot is "lucky" because the uncontrolled variables can be adjusted for, then EVERY shot is lucky!

In retrospect, reading my posts might lead some to believe that I am discounting the elements of chance involved with these shots, I am not.

However, I do not believe that these shots were "lucky", since the shooter made the necessary adjustments based on conditions, and then made the shots.

Bill
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  #75  
Old 01-03-2010, 12:39 PM
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Re: History's Sniper show

bwaites, I really hesitated to say anymore but, I feel for you and can't help but let you know "Your trying to push a rope uphill". Some folks use lucky to describe these kind of shots they haven't or can't make but, never their own...those are all planned shots-that's their perception.
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  #76  
Old 01-03-2010, 03:33 PM
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Re: History's Sniper show

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Originally Posted by Chas1 View Post
bwaites, I really hesitated to say anymore but, I feel for you and can't help but let you know "Your trying to push a rope uphill". Some folks use lucky to describe these kind of shots they haven't or can't make but, never their own...those are all planned shots-that's their perception.
Fair point, and I was just trying to clarify my previous posts.

Bill
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  #77  
Old 01-03-2010, 04:42 PM
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Re: History's Sniper show

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Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
I don't mind you saying that. Those of us who are RVN vets are very used to things like that being said to us.

Your treatment of RS2G was deplorable and pretty much proved my point that some people came up on the thread with only the intent to denigrate the skills of snipers and it seems anyone who actually has combat experience.
You cast judgement at will.

Accusations of denigration can serve a person well, from the throne of judgement. A member states that luck (no matter how finely one tries to tweak the definition of luck) played a benefit-added role in connecting at 1 1/2 miles. You equate such a statement to denigration directed to you, your son, fellow RVN vets? Is this example typical of how RVN vets determine negative things are being said about them?

We're all entitled to our opinion. We have no entitlement to accusation.

How about tolerance? We aren't all snipers. Doesn't mean we're the enemy. Doesn't mean we're lesser human beings. Doesn't mean we denigrate snipers, current or former, because we don't respond to the History channel Sniper show like a trained sniper responds.

Snipers play a valuable role in combat. I don't have to be one to recognize the ever-present fear that trained snipers could inflict on the enemy. Never a moment of secure peace or rest. Takes a special type to be good at it and I trust our military has determined how to select the creme of the crop. I have no problem or hesitation in typing with all sincerity, I value and appreciate a sniper's duty and service to our country. I'm pretty sure you've heard and seen things I don't even want to know about.

Our disagreement here is easily separated from the value of any trade, profession, or craft, in my mind. This disagreement is about respect, or at least the perception of it. You've exressed the belief that other members disrespect the skills of these snipers, or snipers at large. Based on that perception and sensitivity to it, your fighting response has been the disrepect of others due to their expressed thoughts on the sniper show, regardless of their trade, profession, or craft. All I've done is shine light on your response. We surely come from different walks of life, but I don't believe we're the enemy.

Last edited by phorwath; 01-06-2010 at 11:31 AM.
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