I think it is a godsend for the ol hunter that just cant hardly get around anymore or handicap. I for one think it is no differ than hunting with deer feeders, cmere deer ect. My dad started me hunting and loves to hunt but health issues keeps him from it anymore he can't tromp around in the wild chaseing the thrills, so hunting ranches is about all he can do anymore, and to see the smile on his face again makes me happy. I will never knock a person for the hunting they do if thats all they can do. Bside 85,000 acres fence or not would have to be free ranging in my book. Most of the deer or anything else i hunt stay within 2000 acres anyway fence or not.
This debate can go on and on and unfortunately I belive people will become more vocal in their displeasure with this type of hunting. Kirby is right when he stated you can make a hunt out of it with a less capable weapon or by choosing a larger ranch. We have had some horrible guaranteed shot hunts and it is almost always somebody trying to make a hunt out of it by using a bow instead of a rifle. Make sure you are capable of the hunt that you choose to make. Buffalobob mentioned time constraints being a factor in his decision to hunt an enclosure. I find that with my clients, money is a distant second to time available.
I didn't start this thread to have an ethics debate but it's kind of gotten there. I wanted people to consider property owners and livestock owners and their rights to do with these things what they want. The animals on the typical high fence property were born and raised to be hunted and killed. They live a very good life and are generally killed swiftly and humanely just as they were intended to be. They are the property of the landowner or some other private individual who has the right to do what they want with them. Is this unethical? No, we are on top of the food chain and animals are there to serve us either as food or service or companions. It doesn't matter if the animal is some 400+ elk or a one horned exotic sheep.
Look at the steak you ate last night. If that calf was born in my neighborhood he hit the ground in March, maybe was pulled out, got a tag and shot, and was left to live in belly deep mud and snow. A couple months later after being caught and doctored a time or two he gets chased into a little pen by a bunch of cowboys. While way too many people stand around and watch, these cowboys drag him out with a rope around his back legs to get two or three shots and some crazy letters burned on his ass. Oh, and I forgot about his nuts getting cut off. Then life is good for a while if he doesn't get sick. After summer is over the cowboys come again and chase him into a pen and seperate him from his mother. He gets two or three shots and is let out to pace the fence bawling for a week. Once things get straightened out he gets put in a pen to live the winter with a bunch of his buddies in the mud and ****. He will get driven or put on a trailer after booster shots and taken to grass in the spring if he hasn't been sold. Now he probably gets rounded up for the July sale in town. He is put on a trailer and taken to town to be tagged and sorted at the sale barn along with 10,000 other calves and yearlings. The pen riders push him into the ring and back out then he gets loaded on a truck to go to the feedlot. I think most people have a pretty good idea of what life at a feedlot is like. Muddy, hot/cold, and either too wet or too dry, and visits to the hospital pen can all be part of the feedlot life. Then the pen rider comes and loads him on a truck to go and get killed.
As people tend to give animals humanlike characteristics ask yourself if you would rather be a beef steer in Nebraska or some high fence game animal unethically killed while munching on a bush in Texas?
The beef scenario is accurate as it is a life I'm involved with almost daily. The cowboys do everything in their power to keep the animals healthy as their livelyhood depends on it and they are usually very good at it. Do you find their handling of the animal unethical?
When high fence hunting goes, one of the common arguments is that most hunters don't agree with it. First its high fence stuff then it's the old mans place you hunted since you were a kid because he leased it out. We continually lose access to hunting opportunities so how could any hunter object to the way someone else chooses to hunt as long as it's legal.
A friend and neighbor told me the other day that his ranch is private property so mind your own business, he'll do what he pleases and it's not up to anybody else to judge him.
My personal experience here in Bingham County, Idaho is that the biggest opponent to the "high fence" thing is the Fish and Game people. It steals their thunder or money or whatever.
Domestic elk, what the hell ever that is, are controlled by the department of agriculture which is a good thing.
A large component of local opposition are the last of a dying breed, the wannabe cowboy. Not so much the cattlemen but the round hatted, drooping mustached 'buckaroo' with one thumb missing. and one PITA P&Z commission member and so on. Kind of turning into a rant, so I'll quit.
Lance, I'm behind ya!
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
Being from Texas, I assume you know of the YO ranch and the 777 ranch. Would you call hunts on these ranches Canned hunts?
The reason I ask is because they are some of the more famous whitetail ranches in Texas and yes they are confined by high fence.
You really need to go on a good high fence hunt. I do not mean to insult you in any way but you are really uneducated about the subject of what these hunts can be like. I have never been on a hunt where I was driven around until I saw the animal I wanted to shoot and then shoot him.
We have driven to a certain area, gotten out and hunted from there, same as if there was no high fence around. Your comments just suprise me. I would also be curious if you would consider hunting in south africa. If so, 85% of all hunting in south africa is behind high fences. They will tell you it is to keep poachers and predators out but it is no different then any other high fence hunting ranch other then its in africa so it makes it alright.
There is such a huge variaty of game to be hunted in the US that did not used to be here and hunters used to have to travel thousands of miles if they wanted certain animals. That is not the case now and the challange of these hunts is no less then if you were hunting them in the wild where they originated. In fact, with many species, they have gone nearly extinct in their native lands but because of american ranchers and hunters, their numbers are very large here in the US where they were introduced and are now thriving.
I have driven through TX from the top of the panhandle to the tip in the Gulf. Besides a bit in the panhandle, it was nothing but high fence after high fence. Just because you fence in the native game does not mean its any better then fencing in exotic game.
again, I do not mean to offend but you are really uneducated in what is out there as far as challanges in some of these hunts. If you lump them all into the same catagory like your doing, all of these hunts are unethical.
WHen I hunt wild deer, if I get within 800 yards of a deer, the only thing that determines if that deer lives or dies is my decision to shoot him or not. Is that fair chase??? Many will say no!!! But why not, the deer are wild, unconfined deer. Is it my ability to kill a deer at 1/2 mile that makes it unethical????? Is it not fair chase still even though when it comes down to it, its very easy to get within a half mile of any deer even if wild. Is it unethical for me to shoot that deer when the deer feels totally safe because he has learned all his life that the humans can not hurt him from a certain distance???
Am I unethical when I slip a bullet though his ribs at that range even though he tought he was perfectly safe standing there watching me from what he believed was a safe distance.
I would agree, some ranches are really sick but most of them have been closed down due to responses from hunters.
Again, you need to learn what actually happens on these hunts instead of sitting there looking down your nose at these ranches because you believe them to be nothing more then canned hunts and unethical. In your own words, you have never been on one so how can you comment about it one way or another, especially against them. If you had at least been on some I would respect your opinion on the matter but not until you actually try something should you hammer it so aggressively.
By the way, there is a record book for just this type of hunt. Safari Club International has record book listings for estate hunting and they have the same ethical guidelines as the B&C club only they cover world wide game. Again, broadin your horizons, there is alot more out there to be had. You missing out on alot of fun hunts for exotic game and its a pitty to as you live in THE biggest high fence hunting state in the country and world for that matter.
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