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  #1  
Old 12-22-2006, 12:30 PM
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I am trying to diagnose a problem with my muzzleloader.

I am 90% sure that it is a mechanical problem and would like your opinions on the best place to start.

The rifle shoots two groups. First shot is almost always dead center, then I will get a bullet 1 1/4 inches right, then back on center. Sometimes I will get two center then one right, but it almost always throws one or two to the right out of 5 and almost exactly the same distance.

Here is a representative target:



Rifle is a Shilen .458 #7 barrel;
Bullets are 150 grain NAB;
Velocity around 3100 fps
Target shot @ 100 yards [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Savage Tupperware stock with the action glass bedded.
I have poor bench technique, but I think that this is mechanical.



Any thoughts?

edge.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2006, 12:46 PM
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Re: Groups

I'm sure you know more about muzzleloading than I do, but maybe my questions will lead you somewhere.

1) Specifically what do you do between shots? (for example, Swab with a spit patch, then a dry patch?). I know my Muzzleloaders have always been picky about what I do between shots.

2) How long do you wait between shots? Is there any correlation between 2 quick shots and a flier, where slower shots tend not to have the fliers?

3) What primer system are you using? I've heard that regular 209 primers are pretty hot and can cause slight variations in accuracy due to 'movement' of the powder charge etc. This makes seating pressure very critical in some muzzleloaders.

4) I've seen sabots stripped by the rifling when pushed down the barrel too fast with no rotation allowed by the ramrod. I doubt this one in your case, but its worth a thought. Just allow the ramrod to rotate with the rifling as you seat the bullet. I saw one particular sabot and rifle where this happened and it would send a flier.

5) What powder are you using? (BP, 777, Pyrodex) also, loose or pellets. A crushed pellet can cause fliers.

Thats all my thoughts. Take it in the manner it was intended. It's likely you've thought about most if not all of these.

Hope this helped.

Merry Christmas,
Don
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2006, 01:46 PM
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Re: Groups

What twist does that have?

Have you tried shooting from 200?
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2006, 01:47 PM
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Re: Groups

Good questions [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

1) I swab with an alcohol moistened patch, followed by a dry patch between every shot.

2) I would guess that there is about 3-5 minutes between shots now that the weather is cool. I feel the patch when I pull it out of the barrel for heat, but the alcohol cools the barrel pretty fast.

3) I use CCI magnum 209 primers.

4) If you look at the sabot picture, you will notice that they are of a rigid plastic, and individually machined on a CNC lathe. The barrel is 1:14 twist and the rifling is machined into the sabot. The slots are all cut into the same rifling groove and the barrel has a mark to ensure that the sabot slots are loaded into the same barrel groove each time. ( that is why there is a black stripe on the sabots.) The sabots could not be pushed hard enough by hand to make them not rotate as you load them.

5) Load is a duplex consisting of 20.7 grains of Vihtavouri N110 and 50 grains of IMR 3031

edge.

I have not shot @ 200 yards, I mainly shoot at night and my only range is 100 yards underground.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2006, 01:54 PM
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Re: Groups

5) Load is a duplex consisting of 20.7 grains of Vihtavouri N110 and 50 grains of IMR 3031

???? How confident could one be about the consistency of the blend????
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2006, 02:04 PM
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Re: Groups

[ QUOTE ]
5) Load is a duplex consisting of 20.7 grains of Vihtavouri N110 and 50 grains of IMR 3031

???? How confident could one be about the consistency of the blend????

[/ QUOTE ]

Elevation is very good, IMO. Divergence is always horizontal and very consistent. I think that if the load were inconsistent that I would have a vertical spread....but not 100% sure.

edge.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2006, 02:23 PM
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Re: Groups

Here is a similar target. This is also a duplex load of 20.0 gr. N110 and 50 grains of 2015.

The shots on this target were center, then right 1 1/4 then the 2 holes left and right of the first shot.

The last shot was at the lower aiming dot and is a twin to the other 1 1/4 right within about 0.100

If this is load inconsistency, then it is very consistent in its result [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

edge.

The bullet here was a 8mm 150 grain ProHunter.


edge.
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