Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Chatting and General Stuff > General Discussion

General Discussion Must wear red or OD green socks to participate. I can't see your socks, please be honest.


Reply

Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-10-2013, 10:04 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway, Buskerud
Posts: 329
Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

When I was reading some of the interesting and exciting reports about hunting in the USA (Hells Canyon f. ex.) I asked myself why arenít they using single shot break action rifles while hunting in the mountains in such tough and demanding terrain.
In Europe, they are very popular while hunting large game in f. ex. in the Highlands of Scotland, the Alps, Fjell - regions in Norway etc. Most of the SSBAĖ rifles are made by high - tech standards and of extraordinary quality. They are known to be highly precise shooters with sub - MOA anyway. Producers of SSBAs are f. ex. Blaser (K 95), Krieghoff (Hubertus), Merkel (K3 + 4) and other well Ė known names.
The best thing about them is their lightweight only 6 Ė 7lbs, their reduced OAL by fully maintained bbl and the possibility of dissembling them into 2 or 3 parts. Just put the parts into your backpack and have some more comfort instead of bearing an extra bulky scabbard. When reassembled they donít need to be sighted in again, always the same POI. Calibres both rimmed and not rimmed from 222 Ė 338. Most popular are the 6,5 Ė 7 mm rounds due to low gun weight. The potent rounds from 7 RM - demand good muzzle brakes. BBl between 20,5í Ė 25,5í. Hunters with good practice do not have any problems with fast reloading. Re Ė or unloading can be done noiseless which isnít bad either.

What are your opinions and comments due to this topic?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2013, 01:53 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway, Buskerud
Posts: 329
Re: Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

Bump... That's so far quite disappointing.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2013, 08:40 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,296
Re: Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

I've come back and read a couple of times. I had hoped someone else could discuss it better, but certainly did not intend your thoughts to just hit a dead end.

So, absent someone else kicking in I'll take a shot at it. Technical side, most hunts the single shots would provide competitive service. This being the Long Range Hunting site the advantages accuracy wise goes to the bolt guns. Just plain ruggedness, I believe the bolts over time, especially with chambers closer to the minimum side will feed, fire and, extract in adverse conditions better than the single shots. A good quality take down, may well "return to Zero", but at the ranges we talk here, I'd have to be convinced.

Cultural side though is where I believe most of the difference is. Our approach here has been different. especially in the west. Maybe too many stories weighted against Europeans in railroad cars shooting their way across the plains. A lot of our visitors have been from an economic class that most of us don't feel comfortable with. Perhaps carrying one of the best quality, single shots feels a bit like "putting on airs".

Personally, I love a good single single shot. I just can't own them all. I've had in the back of my mind either, the large Hagn, or Falling Block Works, chambered for one of the big rimmed cartridges. However, if I had the money I'd likely go shoot a Cape Buffalo with my bolt action .375.

"Hero's of Telemark" was one of my favorite books as a kid. I've known a fair amount of folks with Norweigian ancestry that have reflected positively on your corner of the world. So for me you start with a lot of built in credibility when you say the fine single shots are more than just functional fine art.

Should you ever find yourself in this corner of the world, stop by we'll take a hike, or ATV ride and compare side by side.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-12-2013, 07:49 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway, Buskerud
Posts: 329
Re: Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARPERC View Post
I've come back and read a couple of times. I had hoped someone else could discuss it better, but certainly did not intend your thoughts to just hit a dead end.

So, absent someone else kicking in I'll take a shot at it. Technical side, most hunts the single shots would provide competitive service. This being the Long Range Hunting site the advantages accuracy wise goes to the bolt guns. Just plain ruggedness, I believe the bolts over time, especially with chambers closer to the minimum side will feed, fire and, extract in adverse conditions better than the single shots. A good quality take down, may well "return to Zero", but at the ranges we talk here, I'd have to be convinced.

Cultural side though is where I believe most of the difference is. Our approach here has been different. especially in the west. Maybe too many stories weighted against Europeans in railroad cars shooting their way across the plains. A lot of our visitors have been from an economic class that most of us don't feel comfortable with. Perhaps carrying one of the best quality, single shots feels a bit like "putting on airs".

Personally, I love a good single single shot. I just can't own them all. I've had in the back of my mind either, the large Hagn, or Falling Block Works, chambered for one of the big rimmed cartridges. However, if I had the money I'd likely go shoot a Cape Buffalo with my bolt action .375.

"Hero's of Telemark" was one of my favorite books as a kid. I've known a fair amount of folks with Norweigian ancestry that have reflected positively on your corner of the world. So for me you start with a lot of built in credibility when you say the fine single shots are more than just functional fine art.

Should you ever find yourself in this corner of the world, stop by we'll take a hike, or ATV ride and compare side by side.
Thanks a lot for your kind and reflected answer. I have to admit that I was very positively surprised. You are surely on the right track, when you refer to the cultural differences between Americans and Europeans also in terms of hunting. Even if we share the most things on both sides of the Atlantic there has been of course a different development throughout the last 250 years.
America (USA) has always been very attractive to me by its huge values of freedom in general and individuality for every single person. Now Iím in my fifties, but when I was a child or teenager, I was reading everything about the Great West of the USA and I got an idea how it should be. These are some of the reasons for me joining this great forum, and I donít regret it. Coming back to hunting and guns, weapons in general the starting point in the US and Europe is different. Here in Europe, we are very limited how many guns we are allowed to own, and I will try to visualize this topic. If you are not organized in a shooting club or active hunter with passed exam you canít buy anything but airguns, sometimes not even that. Currently you have to be at least 18 - 21 years of age and with no reports at all in your certificate of conduct. Access to handguns like pistols and revolvers is even more restricted. Itís a pity that loyal people get punished and are hit by suspicion while the criminals can supply themselves with almost everything on the black market.
Hunting rules in Northern- and Central Europe are very hard and tough. Ethics have a huge standing, btw, I agree with that to a 100%. Everyone who wants to hunt has to pass an exam, both practically and theoretically. What concerns rifles itís to a 80 % the same than in the USA. Bolt-action rifles are ruling on the market. Break actions have a long history and everyone wants to own such in a lifetime. Extra craftsmanship is necessary to get them build, thatís where the high costs come from. All of these rifles are extremely precise and the single shots in particular. They are often used on distances between 300 Ė 450m in mountain regions where they traditionally come from. Large game is their main target like red stag deer (ca. 400 lbs.), wild boar, Steinbock, Gams (2 types of goats) and the European caribou. If someone wants to purchase one of these, he might go and buy a used one in mint condition. Costs for a normal edition are between 1800 Ė 2500 Euros without scope. Not that dangerous and the way to go for most of us who are hard working for their money. While hunting in tough terrain like the Norwegian West coast or Alps I would always prefer a SSBA because they are lightweight, handy, and very precise. Hard work means light equipment. ;-)
When you will travel to Scandinavia one day, youíll be invited to see some of the nicest and most interesting places at this lovely place and of course shooting ranges.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-12-2013, 12:00 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 436
Re: Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

I am most familiar with the gun makers that you listed through the trap shooting that I did when I was younger. I always wanted to someday own a Krieghoff, but an over/under was around $10,000 US at that time. I would hate to see what they are listed for now!

Now that I am a husband and father of 3 young children, cost is an even greater concern for me. I am currently one of the cheapskates on this site, shooting 4 factory rifles, and taking the time to tune an accurate load for each. I would love to own a custom rifle, but that is out of my price range right now. So, you can see that an even more expensive European made rifle, however fine, is simply out of my price range.

I am also of the same mind as HARPERC. I know for a fact that the gun makers that you listed build some truly excellent guns, but I would have to see one disassembled, and reassembled, and shot out to 800 yards with consistency before I would think of one as a long range rig. I know they are well built, but the critic in me would have to see to believe.

Bottom line for me, I need to pay the bills and the table before I could consider owning a "fine" rifle or shotgun. They are works of art in my mind though!!!
__________________
Vegetarian ~ noun, Ancient Indian word for "poor hunter".
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-12-2013, 12:31 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near Napoleon,MI
Posts: 997
Re: Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

The only thing to say to this passage is that elections have consequences. Often the consequences build up over decades. If anyone thinks that the days of territorial aspirations are over, I think they have a surprise coming. The large scale disarming of the public is a very dangerous social experiment, when one considers who your neighbors are and how many authoritarian regimes there still are in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varberger757 View Post
If you are not organized in a shooting club or active hunter with passed exam you canít buy anything but airguns, sometimes not even that. Currently you have to be at least 18 - 21 years of age and with no reports at all in your certificate of conduct. Access to handguns like pistols and revolvers is even more restricted. Itís a pity that loyal people get punished and are hit by suspicion while the criminals can supply themselves with almost everything on the black market.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-12-2013, 01:24 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway, Buskerud
Posts: 329
Re: Break action rifles for (mountain-) hunts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkupper View Post
I am most familiar with the gun makers that you listed through the trap shooting that I did when I was younger. I always wanted to someday own a Krieghoff, but an over/under was around $10,000 US at that time. I would hate to see what they are listed for now!

Now that I am a husband and father of 3 young children, cost is an even greater concern for me. I am currently one of the cheapskates on this site, shooting 4 factory rifles, and taking the time to tune an accurate load for each. I would love to own a custom rifle, but that is out of my price range right now. So, you can see that an even more expensive European made rifle, however fine, is simply out of my price range.

I am also of the same mind as HARPERC. I know for a fact that the gun makers that you listed build some truly excellent guns, but I would have to see one disassembled, and reassembled, and shot out to 800 yards with consistency before I would think of one as a long range rig. I know they are well built, but the critic in me would have to see to believe.

Bottom line for me, I need to pay the bills and the table before I could consider owning a "fine" rifle or shotgun. They are works of art in my mind though!!!
The issues about money are all over the same, I can guarantee you! Most of the hunters, shooters over here use also factory bolt action rifles and shotguns. Luckily are most of the brands we use already of high quality, so tuning is often not nescessary. Single shot rifles are a dream, a dream I want to realize once. I surely will go for a used gun in mint condition for a reasonable price. Many older hunters have died already or stopped hunting, so it is quite easy to find something real good to buy. I'd personally go for Merkel or Blaser because they're much cheaper than Krieghoff and Heym. The most expensive rifles both break action and bolt action are coming from the custom gunmakers in Ferlach, Austria. Worth looking at! A tip from my side is egun.de, the most used website for guns, equipment etc. in Europe. Mainly in German but English is also available. More and better offers in German. SSBA - rifle's name is Kipplaufbuechse. I personally can't guarantee for consistency of these products, but I'm convinced that if you dissamble, reassemble them they will still hold POI even out to 800yards. Find yourself a good gunbroker in Europe and get your SSBA shipped to the US, one day. BTW, price for a new standard K -80 shotgun in the US is 14 395 dollares at Clay Target Sports...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Current Poll
Do you wear hearing protection while hunting?

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC