Hey guys, I will soon be having a 7mm Allen Mag built. I have already started figuring out what parts I am going to use.
My question is, what type of velocities are you getting with 180grn and 200grn bullets. I know most of you, who own 7mm Allen Mags, are shooting the 180grn and 200grn Wildcat Bullets. Are any of you using the 180grn Bergers? I am thinking you guys have also had the barrel throated for the 180 and 200grn wildcats, so you probably don't use any other bullets. However, I would like to hear what you guys are shooting with it. Also, what are the BC's of the Wildcat Bullets.
Like I said, what kind of velocities are you getting and what type of velocities can I expect with the 180 and 200grn bullets using a Lilja 32" 1-9 twist barrel.
Also, I am going to list the specs of the rifle, and I would like to get your input, + or -;
1. 7MM Allen Magnum
2. Action-BAT 8.5 M, 1.55 Diameter, Fluted Bolt
3. Barrel-Lilja 32", 1-9 twist, 1.450 for 5" tapered to 1.350 at the muzzle. Throated for 180 and 200grn Bullets.
4. Stock-Master Class F-Prone Special Thumbhole Verion with Adjustable Cheek Piece, One way (UP/Down) Butt Plate, Weight added to rear and weight added to forend, Color will be Black & Grey. There is a picture of the exact stock on 6mmBR.com, under Guns of the Week, title Dekorts BAT 6.5x284 F-Classer.
What do you want to hunt with the gun? If it is elk or deer I think you will be very happy with it.
I would first observe you are way overscoped and will be unhappy. Although you seem to go against the grain alot, so maybe you will actually be happy.
I am a very low tech hunter so I do not have a chronograph but Kirby chrongraphed mine at 3340 fps with a very mild load of US869 in a 34 inch barrel with a 200 grain RBBT Wildcat. I could probably achieve 3400+ fps if I choose to.
The reason I went to a 34 inch barrel was that for the first few years I would like to have the maximum range possible and then I would like to have enough barrel to set it back at least once and maybe twice. I bought a 308 to practice with and do not shoot the 7AM for pleasure. It is strictly to hunt with.
There are three of us who I know of that have killed stuff with this caliber: 7mmSS, James Staggs and me. We all have our emails in our profiles. We all believe the cartridge is the best thing since sliced bread and I have many times asked James and Dick questions and I follow their advice just like it came from Kirby (which it usually did). They both have been very helpful to me. In fact only about two weeks ago I asked Dick (7mmSS) for advice and even though his advice made my eyebrows go up a ways, in the end I followed his advice and am glad I did.
Kirby was always very honest with me on technical issues as well as financial issues and my advice to you is to simply trust him. He will deliver you a great gun if you ask for and take his advice.
I hope you are getting a single shot action. I always grit my teeth when people build long range guns designed to miss with.
I ordered 500 of the 200 gr HP RBBT Wildcats with my rifle. I am happy with that style bullet for hunting elk. I am very comfortable that the gun will kill elk to 1500 yards. Too bad it doesn't have a better triggerman. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
My best advice is to rely on Kirby for advice. You are paying him for that. It is included in the price of the gun.
What I did was mark my calendar and send him a nice easy going email once every two months asking about the weather and world affairs. He would always recognize it as an inquiry into the status of things and let me know he was still alive and knew I was still alive. I am very happy with the way things went.
2: Great choice. I went with a Nesika but the choice is yours.
3: Lilja is good but check with Kirby on land/groove configuration and dimensions. There are other brands that would work also. Kirby can fill you in on whatever you are thinking about.
4: If you're happy with it then it'll probably work o.k.
5: I wouldn't have a 2 oz. trigger on a "hunting" gun if you paid me to. If you're just building it to shoot and play with, then the weight is up to you but for me 2 oz. would still be a little heavy even in a play gun.
6: Wouldn't have one on a gun I was going to shoot. I don't like dirt in my eyes. Go with a Holland or one of Shawn's brakes. They'll work just as well, and probably a lot better, and you won't have a dust storm with each shot.
7: You may or may not get by with a 40 moa base. It depends on what you use for a zero range and what happens when you put all of your "steel" together and try and sight it in. I've got a 20 moa base on mine and wish I'd put 30 on it. 40 would put me bottomed out to zero the way I like and I won't bottom out my scope adjustment. With my steel, 30 would work and I'd not be bottomed out.
8: Never used them but a lot of people do. I went with Nightforce rings.
9: Nightforce 12-42 = 45 moa elev. 5.5-22 = 100 moa elev. Guess which I went with??? I have at times used all of the scopes elevation plus the scopes hash marks when playing with dangerous rocks way out there and wish I'd had some more besides what the scope has.
10: Whatever you can pack and whatever makes you happy. If you're not hunting with it then weight is not an issue.
I've shot from 160 Accubonds at 3500-3600 fps on up to the 200 gr. Wildcats at up to 3350 fps. Most of the time the lighter Accubonds are at about 3450-3500 for the accuracy and the 200s at about 3200-3250 for the accuracy. It doesn't matter how fast they're going if you can't hit anything with it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] As far as the BCs, PM me or e-mail me when you get it up and running and I'll fill you in on a starting point for the BC. You'll only know what it is after you have done all of the testing that you should do.
Have fun and listen to Kirby. He's been there and done that. You'll enjoy it when you finally get it built. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
BB, your right I do sometimes go against the grain when it comes to Bullet type. The only thing I seem to do different than everyone elso is use of bullets. However, I will be using only high BC bullets out of this rifle. I will be using it for ranges out to 1500 to 2000 yards.
I set most of my rifles up to use the Higher BC V-Max and Ballsitic tip bullets. I usually only get to shoot out to 1000 yards where I live and these bullets do really well for me at that range, + they anchor the varmints really well. There are times when I do shoot past a 1000 yards and when I do, I always use the Higher BC Bullets. I am currently having a 300-WSM built around the 125grn BT for varmint hunting out to 1000 yards.
I am going to need a rifle for shooting past a 1000 yards and that's why I decided on the 7mm Allen Mag and the High BC bullets. I considered going with the 338 Allen Mag, however, I 've decided the 7mm Allen Mag will be plenty gun for shots out to 2000 yards.
Regarding your question about what I will be using the rifle for. I will use it for Long range varmint hunting on Squirrels, Coyotes, and Crows. I will also shoot it in some F-Class competitions at our local range and they're not sanctioned events, they are for fun and bragging rights. I think the rifle will be to heavy, and becuase of the brake, will not be legal for santioned comps.
Regarding the scope, I might go with the 8x32x56mm NXS. I just bought one, so I will see how I like it.
Regarding action, it will be a single shot.
Regarding Kirby, I will listen to his advice for sure!!!! I already know he is a great guy. He was getting ready to build a 338 Allen Mag for me, and I had to pull out do to my job situation. He gave me ALL of my money back with NO questions asked. I sold all of my guns, scopes, reloading equipment, rangefinder, ect. It looks like my job situation is going to get really good here soon, and I will be able to build back my collection. The 7MM Allen Mag is going to be in my collection.
Regarding the bullet choice, I am proably going to have it throated for the 180grn and 200grn Wildcat RBBT Bullets. I have heard Kirby say this is the best way to set the 7mm Allen Mag up. Regarding velocity, I thought it was running the 200grn bullets around 3400fps, I guess I was wrong.
Regarding the action, I went with the BAT because they are the best action out there. I have owned both BAT and Nesika and the BAT won hands down. Remeber, that's my opinion. I just bought a new Lawton 7500 Action for my 300-WSM project. I have heard really great things about the Lawtons. If I like the Lawton and it performs well on my 300-WSM project, Maybe I will use a Lawton on the 7mm Allen Mag project.
I am thinking about maybe going with the Krieger barrel. However, Kirby seems to mostly use the Lilja's, and he gets great results from them, so I will probably do what Kirby thinks will be best.
Regarding the stock, it's an awesome set up. I've always wanted a stock built like this for long range shooting. They are very expensive and that's why I usually go with the McMillan MBR. However, I am going to buy the best for this project, I am willing to pay a little more for a platform like this. If you get a chance, take a look at the stock. You can see a picture and write up on it of on 6mmBR.com, look under Guns of The Week and the title is "Week 76 Dekort's BAT 6.5x284 F-Classer. I am building the stock exactly like that, but the color will Black & Grey.
Regarding the trigger, I will probably go with the Jewel trigger that allows for adjusment from 1.5oz to 3pounds. I've done that before too.
Regarding the brake, I usually shoot from a bench and if I shoot of the ground, I put a matt in front of the muzzle.
Regarding the MOA in the base, the farthest I will be able to shoot is right around 2000 yards, so I think 40 MOA will be just right if I use the 8x32x56mm NXS. I thought I was going to use the 12x42x56mm NXS, but I am thinking the 8x32x56 NXS will be a better chioce. That will give me a total of 105 MOA.
Regarding the weight, I wont be carrying it that much. It will mostly be shot of the bench or from the prone position. If I have to carry it, it wont be a problem. I am 6'2", 250lbs, and my other hobbie is body building and running so my weight is a very in shape 250 pounds.
Regarding the velocity, I know the VLD or RBBT bullets usually do better at the lower end of the velocity spectrum. However, I would really like to get the velocity as high as possible with the best accuracy. I was thinking with a 32", 1-9 twist pipe, I could get the 200grn RBBT's going at around 3400fps. Maybe Kirby will give us the exact velocity, with this bullets (200grn), out of a 32" pipe.
Once again, thanks for the info. Here is my e-mail address; firstname.lastname@example.org
I would like to see the BC info on your rifle with the 200grn RBBT.
I would suggest that you get a Savage FT/R for F-class and not use the 7AM for that. F-Class is a high volume, rapid fire competition and I do not think running 22 rounds of 105 grains of powder each down a barrel in 30 minutes is a good idea. The entire course consists of nearly 60 rounds of timed fire and I believe your barrel will be ruined on the first day. That is why I bought the 40X in 308 - the 308 barrel will take that kind of abuse. You should ask Kirby about that particular point.
For shooting varmint out to 2K you should contact Richard Graves concerning his new bullets. That would be the way to go in my opinion. As I said, for elk I am happy with the old style.
If you really just want to shoot varmints then maybe the scope will be OK. I spent some amount of time last Fall looking through my 8-32X-56mm NXS at a meadow that was about 2000 -2500 yards away. I tried to imagine seeing a rock chuck as a first step and then trying to judge all of the factors that would be necessary to make the shot. The people who do this stuff are way better than me. What intrigues me is that a rock chuck is only a little smaller than the kill zone of a deer. If you can't connect with the first round on a rock chuck then you can't connect on a deer. That pretty much tells me what my limits are on deer hunting.
At 2K there is no difference between a launch velocity of 3300 fps and 3400 fps in my opinion. It is all about the accuracy with which you judge distance and wind. The latter being the most unpredictable. Even on a windless day you will have convection currents. I see no reason you cannot get 3400 out of your gun if you ask Kirby for advice and take his advice. I do not believe you will get 3400 out of what you have specified. Sending Kirby a bunch of componnets and telling him to screw them together is a bad idea. Talk to Kirby offline and I think you will have a very slightly different list of components and the gun will perform at 2K (at a slow rate of fire).
BB, I will mostly be using the rifle for long range varminting and not F-Class comp. If I do some F-Class shooting, it would be at our local range and it would be for fun. I will definently listen to what Kirby recommends and thanks for the advice.