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.444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

 
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2012, 03:00 PM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

I have a guide gun in 45-70. It's a very versatile round. Most factory rounds are loaded very mild (for use in older firearms) and have very little recoil. Some companies (Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, Corbon, Garrett) also sell fully loaded max power rounds for use in strong firearms such as Marlin 1895 or Ruger #1 and that turns it into whole other class of power. My 45-70 is my favorite gun to shoot. Something fun about launching 400-500 grain bullets rapid fire out of a fast lever action. If you handload you can load it from mild to wild with a wide variety of bullets. My 350 Gr. load has a PBR of 225 yards for elk and is roughly 18in low at 300 yards. It's very accurate too. I much prefer the 45-70 over the 450 just because of the wide range of factory ammo available. Like I said, you can buy mild factory rounds and full power rounds.
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  #23  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:02 AM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeptunesTrident View Post
I have a guide gun in 45-70. It's a very versatile round. Most factory rounds are loaded very mild (for use in older firearms) and have very little recoil. Some companies (Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, Corbon, Garrett) also sell fully loaded max power rounds for use in strong firearms such as Marlin 1895 or Ruger #1 and that turns it into whole other class of power. My 45-70 is my favorite gun to shoot. Something fun about launching 400-500 grain bullets rapid fire out of a fast lever action. If you handload you can load it from mild to wild with a wide variety of bullets. My 350 Gr. load has a PBR of 225 yards for elk and is roughly 18in low at 300 yards. It's very accurate too. I much prefer the 45-70 over the 450 just because of the wide range of factory ammo available. Like I said, you can buy mild factory rounds and full power rounds.
nothing wrong with a 45-70, but full bore loads are seriously hard on the action (even a Marlin). Better off with the .450 if that's what your after. The action is built a little stronger with the .450, but not a huge amount. A .450 will easilly push a 400 grain Speer to 1900 fps using AA2230, and that's about all you can get with a 350 grain bullet out of the 45-70. The Speer 350 grainbullet is said to have a .23 B/C (I doubt it), while the Hornaday plastic tipped bullet has the same B/C. Who's accurate here? Myself I like the 400 grain mass at a little over 1900 fps. The 300 grain bullet from Speer out of the .444 is good for about 2280fps in my rifle, and that bullet would hold up well in something tough. But the OP basicly said that he was shooting 300lb. stuff, and the .444 would be just as good as most anything else without beating you silly.
gary
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  #24  
Old 10-10-2012, 02:59 PM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Don't know where you got your info bud but you are incorrect. The ammo companies I mentioned load ammo FOR the Marlin 1895. I've yet to hear of anyone who's 1895 couldn't handle those rounds. If you load a round too hot for the 1895 then skip the 450 (which offers no performance value) and get a Ruger no. 1. They can be safely loaded to even higher pressure than an 1895 (45-70 or 450 Marlin). If the OP wants a 444 there is nothing wrong with that round either. Just giving the OP my personal experience with the 45-70 as I have never owned a 444 or 30-30 to compare it to. With a 300 lb animal all three are great.
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  #25  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:45 PM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeptunesTrident View Post
Don't know where you got your info bud but you are incorrect. The ammo companies I mentioned load ammo FOR the Marlin 1895. I've yet to hear of anyone who's 1895 couldn't handle those rounds. If you load a round too hot for the 1895 then skip the 450 (which offers no performance value) and get a Ruger no. 1. They can be safely loaded to even higher pressure than an 1895 (45-70 or 450 Marlin). If the OP wants a 444 there is nothing wrong with that round either. Just giving the OP my personal experience with the 45-70 as I have never owned a 444 or 30-30 to compare it to. With a 300 lb animal all three are great.
I stand behind my post! The .450 action is said to be stronger, and it's also known that the Marlin 1895 action is seriously taxed with anything much over 28K psi loads There's even a disclaimer written in most all loading manuals about this. (sammi max is 28K for modern lever guns)
gary
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  #26  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:19 PM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

I'll take my '95 win high grade in 405 any day against any round mentioned. If stopping is on the agenda my rem lightweight sps in 375h@h ought to have fun. Another option for the 45-70 if you are bent on that is a siamese mauser. It'll take all you can give it and smile.
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  #27  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty7mmstw View Post
I'll take my '95 win high grade in 405 any day against any round mentioned. If stopping is on the agenda my rem lightweight sps in 375h@h ought to have fun. Another option for the 45-70 if you are bent on that is a siamese mauser. It'll take all you can give it and smile.

Bolt gun owners sooner or later short shuck the bolt in a panic, and then become part of the food chain if they are alone. That's why you see so many doubles in dangerous game areas. You meet a bear at 100 feet with a bolt gun, and he's gonna be ontop of you almost instantly. You might get two shots off, while a guy that has a lever gun should get four or five.

The .405 Winchester is an excellent round, but really not much better than the .444 (well a little better). Both push a 300 grain bullet a little over 2000 fps. (2200 verses 2100fps). Of course you using a case that's almost a half in longer and near impossible to find these days. A .450 with a 350 grain bullet is similar in power, and the 400 grain bullet is a serious stopper on anything in this hemisphere. Then you take into fact that 90% of the end users will never plan on reloading any of the big bores as they only plan on shooting a box of ammo a year at the most. I like the .405, but out of the box Hornaday loads for the .450 are much easier.
gary
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: West WI
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

I'll second the 308. I know that wasn't part of the question but being someone else mentioned it. I had 3 444's and a couple 45/70's all have been sold. Once I sat down and started shooting/reloading the 308 they made little sense to keep. The 308 will run circles around the 444 and 45/70 at 200 yards plus. Hows the 45/70 at 800 yards? If you will be limited to hunting under 200 yards just take a 12 gauge with a sabot slug. Check the ballistics of a 12 gauge sabot slug vs 45/70.

I know this will not be the most popular reply but I just had to point out a different point of view. Maybe ruffle a few feathers.
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